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Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by kjkjadksj on Thursday June 30, 2022 @10:10PM (#31941377)
I’ve also been confused. I went to what I thought was a health food restaurant and ordered iirc a chicken sandwich. Received gardein which if you’ve had it is like a 1990s tier veggie burger aka not good. The cheese on it was also fake american cheese which itself was never cheese to begin with, but they still called it cheese despite it being nothing like cheese in taste or texture and only vaguely in color. At least let me know what I’m getting into instead of playing cute and having this game with the menu.
Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by LegitShady on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:00PM (#31941775)
I've tried a lot of vegan alternative foods because I like trying new things (unfortunately for vegans, I also love meat) and I've never had a vegan cheese substitute that was worth purchasing, ever.
Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by Klonoar on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:14PM (#31941877)
I've found it's taken ages for the various makers to come around to the fact that you have to compete on taste, otherwise none of this is worth buying.

There's finally a few (e.g, Violife) who have started to get close. Kite Hill's almond ricotta is probably 1:1 for me and I eat it when I find it on sale.

I think if you're after "luxury" cheese (the kind you might enjoy with a bottle of wine) it's harder, but for day to day cheese you throw on a sandwich/tacos/whatever it's passable.

(My two cents, of course - everyone tastes different, and you should eat real cheese if that's what you want)

Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by LegitShady on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:19PM (#31941912)
the overwhelming majority of cheese I eat is old cheddar or mozzarella, and I haven't seen a vegan cheese does a simulation of either worth talking about. Cooking them is even worse, while cooking cheddar or mozza is great.

It's just not the same.

Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by markstos on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:10AM (#31942259)
For a long time, all vegan cheese was bad. Some was horrible. But recently there some that made from primarily from nuts and beans that are quite good.

For a mozzarella, I recommend Miyoko's https://miyokos.com/collections/vegan-mozz

Reading "How Not to Die" gives pause on the long term health impacts of eating dairy based on evidence from nutrition studies.

Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by Klonoar on Thursday June 30, 2022 @11:39PM (#31942051)
Eh, Mozzarella is a tough one. I'd agree there's little options there yet, but I don't use that often enough to know if there's anything new (the wife also prefers getting a ball of fresh mozzarella sometimes, so I don't bother with alternatives there).

Cheddar though... I'd have to disagree. To each their own though!

Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by nemo44x on Friday July 01, 2022 @12:06AM (#31942229)
> The cheese on it was also fake american cheese which itself was never cheese to begin with,

That’s not true. American cheese is built on cheese but adds butter and cream and sodium citrate to it as an emulsification. The product is a sort of cheese based product of varying quality of rather poor (common) to essential (any good hamburger).

So maybe it’s not cheese on it’s own, but it is a product of cheese and the core ingredients are (should be!) dairy.

Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by cheese_goddess on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:44PM (#31950916)
Copying from an earlier comment of mine, "American cheese" or "processed cheese" is often (but not always) a blend of materials none of which begins life as cheese:

> Typical formulation for Analogue Pizza Cheese, from Fundamentals of Cheese Science:

  Ingredient               Level added (g/100g Blend)
  Casein and caseinates    23.00 
  Vegetable oil            25.00   
  startch                  2.00    
  Emulsifying salts        2.00    
  Flavour                  2.00    
  Flavour enhancer         2.00    
  Acid regulator           0.40
  Color                    0.04
  Preservative             0.10
  Water                    38.50
  Condensate^              7.00
^ Upon cooking the blend to about 85°C using direct steam injection, condensate equivalent to about 7.0 g is absorbed by the blend.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27169697

The list above is for "analogue pizza cheese" but that's just the most common use of this kind of "cheese": as pizza topping.

So, in a way, "vegan cheese" is not the worst kind of thing in the market that's labelled as "cheese" while not even close to the real thing.

Btw, many people who are not vegan or vegetarian eat this stuff and think it's cheese. I mean because it's on pizza. And it kiind of melts, right? What else do you expect to find sort of melting on top of pizza? Cheese!

So, yeah, 100%, you can totally and absolutely fool consumers by emulating the look, taste and feel of a real foodstuff. But usually that's because those consumers are so used to eating fake stuff anyway that they have forgotten what the real thing tastes like... if they ever even tasted it.

Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by nemo44x on Friday July 01, 2022 @02:56PM (#31951070)
I make American cheese all the time. 90% of the ingredients are cheddar cheese. Lots of good burger joints do this too. But yes, there’s very bad versions as you’ve described.

The main idea is to take a mild cheddar and tame it further while changing its texture and to make it melt nicely. This is why any other cheese on a hamburger is inferior.

Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by cheese_goddess on Friday July 01, 2022 @03:49PM (#31951804)
Cheddar should already melt nicely. Maybe we're talking about different cheeses called "cheddar"? I've never had American cheddar, maybe it's different than the English kind?
Re:France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe veget... by nemo44x on Friday July 01, 2022 @08:43PM (#31954861)