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Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by ryandrake on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @08:04PM (#31914760)
To play Devil's Advocate: IF the employee is meeting all work expectations, and IF he is not also working for a competitor, and IF he is keeping a good firewall between his work for each of these companies (using company-specific equipment for each job, never crossing the streams), then as a hiring manager, why is this a problem?

For low paid service workers, it's acceptable and sometimes expected to juggle multiple jobs. Why is it unacceptable for office workers?

Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by PragmaticPulp on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @09:14PM (#31915301)
Because in reality, we have to rely on engineers to be honest about their workload and estimates to determine realistic expectations.

The overemployed game is all about exaggerating how much you're working and how difficult your tasks are. Targets, deadlines, and work scoping aren't chosen in a vacuum. We rely on the team to give us feedback about what they can accomplish in the expected full-time work week.

This goes both ways. If I'm handing out 80 hours of work every week, I need my team to tell me it's too much and I'll scale it down. The problem with overemployed people is that they must lie about their workloads and estimates to avoid being assigned more work than they can handle.

We had an overemployed remote person once. Like the parent comment, we noticed when they weren't performing at the same level as their peers (or even a reasonable level of expectation). They were also frequently unavailable for discussions, half-involved in meetings, and generally unreliable.

> For low paid service workers, it's acceptable and sometimes expected to juggle multiple jobs. Why is it unacceptable for office workers?

Low paid workers with multiple jobs aren't doing them simultaneously, but someone with two remote tech jobs is almost certainly trying to do both at the same time. Honestly if someone had infinite energy and could dedicate 8 hours per day to my job and then another 8 hours per day to another job and not overlap the two or run out of steam, I wouldn't care at all. But in practice, it becomes a constant game of lies and sandbagging that is just incompatible with running a fair and balanced engineering team. (Hint: It's often the coworkers who catch on before the manager because they can see very clearly that their peer is sandbagging)

Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by spookthesunset on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @11:08PM (#31916020)
That’s why the better relationship for remote work is 1099 contract work. Bill by the hour and be upfront about your other gigs because it is to be expected.
Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by Firmwarrior on Thursday June 30, 2022 @02:44PM (#31936750)
I wish this were the norm

You hire a doctor for a few hours, plumbers/lawyers for hours or weeks depending on the task, everything goes fine

but somehow software engineers have to come on board, sit at a company desk, wear a company shirt drinking company coffee every day

It'd be great if coders were organized as individuals and small groups that just took on tasks for fixed bids, like the fantasy world from the book "Developer Hegemony."

I could really go for six months off right now, but I'd have to fight tooth and nail to get it from my job, and it would severely hinder my career. So instead I'm just stuck chugging along until I've got enough saved up to quit and start my own company (or take some time off, then jump through a bunch of hoops to take on another prolonged period of full time servitude)

(Bringing it back to the topic at hand: That doesn't make it morally right to lie to your employer(s) and do a half-assed job. The overemployed people on Reddit/TeamBlind sound like a bunch of lying dirtbags who just say everything is harder than it is to cover for themselves slacking off, and aim to just get fired after a couple of years.)

Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by ryandrake on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @10:24PM (#31915747)
I think we agree. Sure, if he's sandbagging, distracted, and not meeting expectations, that's unacceptable. But the (maybe theoretical) superhuman who can successfully juggle multiple full-time jobs and perform as any other full time worker would be expected--I don't get why it's taboo. Maybe it's something magical in the "employee" word, since independent contractors can, and many times do, have multiple simultaneous clients, and it's not a problem.
Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by glouwbug on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @08:48PM (#31915125)
You wouldn't work at Starbucks and Denny's on the same hours, would you? 40 hour per week contracts expect the same
Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by HWR_14 on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @11:30PM (#31916150)
There are 168 hours in a week. Even if they sleep/eat/shower for almost 1/3 the time, that's enough time to 3 40 hr/week jobs. Certainly enough for 2.
Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by glouwbug on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @02:06PM (#31923678)
With the timezones 8 hours apart I suppose it's okay to work two remote jobs. The tech on the job will have to be vastly different however?
Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by usrn on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @10:19AM (#31920477)
I think the constraining resource is emotional energy, not time. A lot of people are focusing on time but we all know only a tiny amount of our time is really spent working.

At least for me I don't even have enough emotional energy for my current job, I can't imagine doing more than one. The trouble is this is impossible to measure and certainly isn't formally part of employment.

Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by throwaway2037 on Tuesday June 28, 2022 @08:59PM (#31915196)
On the surface, I agree. However, tech work usually involves intellectual property and sometimes non-disclosure agreements. Also, many employee contracts will explicitly prohibit other working arrangements (salaried or not). That said, I applaud anyone who can get away with it. The down side seems minimal.
Re:FBI: Stolen PII and deepfakes used to apply for remote te... by itomato on Wednesday June 29, 2022 @05:23AM (#31917985)
There is little appetite for risk in staffing.

Maybe engineering staffing practices should be more reflective of the possibilities, but that’s best for a single Org to define for itself.