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Re:Street Epistemology by asplake on Thursday June 23, 2022 @08:05AM (#31847876)
I’m very interested in the discipline of respectful enquiry but this passage rang some alarm bells:

> Street Epistemology started life as a method to discuss religious belief in the 2013 book A Manual for Creating Atheists.

Is it just me, or is there (or was there) an agenda here that’s in conflict with its claims about creating understanding? With apologies for the pun, were they “good faith” conversations?

Re:Street Epistemology by robobro on Thursday June 23, 2022 @09:16AM (#31848642)
Peter Boghossian was an old instructor of mine at PSU. As a B or C-tier "new atheist" who wasn't quite on tenure track, it was interesting seeing how he tried to get attention. He was pretty solid in his lectures outside of politics and religion -- he was generally well-read and was very entertaining, but seeing him trying to "trigger" people on those topics made a lot of students groan.

He had a small group of students who would follow him around everywhere and he would ask the class and his clique to promote and astroturf him on Reddit, Wikipedia, et al. Which is valid... I guess it's better if his students are doing it than him?

A few times on campus, he was seen coaching students who were later identified by a local antifascist group as being linked to "the Daily Stormer" -- which I have mixed feelings about; I truly believe everyone deserves to have tools for better thinking, but you're right to suspect Boghossian as possibly having agendas.

In a direct response to your last question, he did get in some hot water for bad faith academic publishing that produced questionable benefits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair

I'll say that people criticizing RMS doesn't make the libre software movement bad, and it doesn't invalidate his accomplishments.

Re:Street Epistemology by Sohcahtoa82 on Thursday June 23, 2022 @05:42PM (#31855513)
I had him as well in 2012.

He was fun back then, but I think a little bit of fame has gotten to his head. I think he wants to get people to really think about their beliefs, why they have them, and if it's reasonable to have them, but his methods are indistinguishable from bad faith trolls that are "just asking questions" (aka, JAQing off).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxvyeZa1YSI

Re:Street Epistemology by a9h74j on Friday June 24, 2022 @12:03AM (#31857693)
I took his book as disingenuous. "How to have difficult conversations" ... to change the minds of people who are wrong per definition.
Re:Street Epistemology by sasaf5 on Thursday June 23, 2022 @08:24AM (#31848036)
Essentially "I am rational therefore I am right".

Another passage that rings a bell:

> Today the method has a life of its own, driven by a community of people interested in discussing difficult topics, seeking truth and reflecting on the methods we use to arrive at our deep convictions.

Re:Street Epistemology by Self-Perfection on Thursday June 23, 2022 @09:01AM (#31848457)
What is alarming in this passage? Seems innocuous to me.
Re:Street Epistemology by feet on Thursday June 23, 2022 @08:41AM (#31848213)
>Essentially "I am rational therefore I am right".

Sounds like basically the entirety of philosophy

Re:Street Epistemology by ww_wpg on Thursday June 23, 2022 @09:24AM (#31848750)
> > Essentially "I am rational therefore I am right".

> Sounds like basically the entirety of philosophy

That's the opposite of the experience I've observed.

The starting point for a lot of philosophy students is learning the teachings of Plato and Socrates, among which the most famous is likely "I know that I know nothing"

Re:Street Epistemology by nescioquid on Thursday June 23, 2022 @04:12PM (#31854556)
The spirit of searching interrogation is there, along with Socrates' daemon who, Socrates said, prevented him from saying anything untrue (I'm hamming it up here).

The philosophical prototype of Socrates also gives license to be a gad-fly, piss people off for a good cause, etc. Instead of offering to pay a modest fine when he was found guilty of corrupting the youth, Socrates was so certain of his rectitude he told the court he should instead be awarded free meals for life like the Olympic champions. Now there's someone with chutzpah.

Re:Street Epistemology by collegeburner on Thursday June 23, 2022 @09:37AM (#31848942)
There are plenty of schools of thought that start with "I am not likely rational" or "I can't know if I'm rational".
Re:Street Epistemology by avs733 on Thursday June 23, 2022 @09:15AM (#31848631)
not really. It is a specific school of philosophical thought - and the basis of a lot of the critiques of science, positivism.
Re:Street Epistemology by guerrilla on Thursday June 23, 2022 @08:15AM (#31847966)
They've discussed the ethics of this a few times on the live show. Some practitioners think the attitude is wrong, other's don't... but now it's spread so much that background viewpoints are pretty diverse anyway with even Christians doing it, ironically due to their evangelism. On the other hand, I think Anthony Magnabosco[1] doesn't hide it well sometimes in his interviews, which I think some of his interivewees pick up on and it harms the process.

In any case, I think this is the most important kind of activism their is and nobody needs to be part of their original community to do it or do it for the same reasons.

1. https://www.youtube.com/c/AnthonyMagnabosco210

Re:Street Epistemology by otikik on Thursday June 23, 2022 @09:03AM (#31848473)
If you see religion as something good, or even neutral, to humanity, then of course there is (I would probably say was) a mismatch between the claims and the objectives.

If you see religion as an overall bad influence - more specifically, as "the opposite of understanding", then both are (were) aligned.

Re:Street Epistemology by swayvil on Thursday June 23, 2022 @09:15AM (#31848633)
Even if you are biased, striving for truly rigorous arguing can lead to much insight about arguing itself. Dissecting your own philosophy as well as that of your "opponent".