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Re:Consciousness is not computation by andai on Monday June 20, 2022 @12:43AM (#31806366)
Stephen Wolfram's article "Alien Intelligence and the Concept of Technology"[0], posted a few days ago, touched on this, eg. the idea that a weather pattern "computes" its next state, ie. the weather in the next moment, and indeed exhibits very complex behavior while doing so. The hot iron bar is a simpler example but at the atomic scale the same principle applies.

The iron bar doesn't strike me as particularly conscious, except perhaps to the degree that elementary particles possess some rudimentary consciousness. (See "panpsychism", the idea that consciousness pervades all matter. Though lately, the reverse seems more likely to me—see Lex Fridman's interview of Donald Hoffman[1].)

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31781234

[1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=h1LucGjqXp4

Re:Consciousness is not computation by dqpb on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:05AM (#31806473)
A hot bar of iron can "compute" the next state of a hot bar of iron. It cannot compute the next state of any arbitrary program. Can I play Fortnite with nothing more that a hot bar of iron? No, I cannot! Not unless it's compiled to WebAssembly.
Re:Consciousness is not computation by ivalm on Monday June 20, 2022 @01:55AM (#31806767)
You can but it shifts the burden to the decoder. Since an iron bar over some time period has a finite number of states, there exists a decoder that maps state changes in the iron bar to your Fortnite gameplay.

I think a more fair criticism is that you likely cannot choose the decoder without an oracle (ie the causal relationship would be hard to preserve). I think OPs claim is that consciousness, unlike Fortnite, doesn’t depend on being causally related to some external inputs (thus you don’t need oracle to choose the decoder).

Re:Consciousness is not computation by jwalton on Monday June 20, 2022 @11:05AM (#31811215)
> Since an iron bar over some time period has a finite number of states

Citation needed.

Re:Consciousness is not computation by ivalm on Monday June 20, 2022 @11:52AM (#31811800)
He defined these states through spin flips and I assume we sample slower than decoherence. This is a semi classical system without complicated qm effects.

But even if we didn’t restrict ourselves

log(# of states)~entropy

and there is a maximum (and finite) amount of entropy you can have in a finite volume (actually it scales with surface area) before you get a black hole.