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Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by btilly on Friday June 17, 2022 @04:44PM (#31784104)
This is not a hypothetical problem. Former slave-owning states passed Black Codes that made it easy to convict blacks of things..where they wound up in prisons where they were leased out as workers. Since it mostly happened to blacks, nobody cared much if there was much fairness in the process. And given the economic incentives, it was done fairly liberally.

https://innocenceproject.org/13th-amendment-slavery-prison-l... documents that it still happens in places like Louisiana.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by philliphaydon on Friday June 17, 2022 @05:39PM (#31784703)
Oh wow I didn’t know that. All of a sudden it makes the lyrics from “Jedi Mind Tricks - Shadow Business” make sense.

> Slavery's not illegal, that's a fucking lie It's illegal, unless it's for conviction of a crime The main objective is to get you in your fucking prime And keep the prison full and not give you a fucking dime

https://genius.com/Jedi-mind-tricks-shadow-business-lyrics

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by lelandfe on Friday June 17, 2022 @06:22PM (#31785178)
But thanks to Reaganomics, prison turned to profits

Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics

Cause slavery was abolished, unless you are in prison

You think I am bullshittin? Then read the 13th Amendment

Involuntary servitude and slavery it prohibits

That's why they givin' drug offenders time in double digits

- Killer Mike, Reagan

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by unmole on Friday June 17, 2022 @10:50PM (#31786899)
> Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics

Yeah, no.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by ashwagary on Sunday June 19, 2022 @01:21AM (#31796359)
> Cause free labor's the cornerstone of US economics

The lyric is alluding to the fact that the country's foundation was built on 100s of years of free labor.

The practice of exporting worthless printed paper in exchange for valuable labor intensive goods is also what that lyric is pointing to.

American slavery, a model that has evolved and now encompasses much of the globe.

Keeping a large % of the world and "undesirable" domestic population poor, at gun point if necessary, is in America's national economic interest.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by pastacacioepepe on Saturday June 18, 2022 @03:21AM (#31787875)
You need to argument when you negate someone's opinion.
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by unmole on Saturday June 18, 2022 @03:26AM (#31787907)
Do I also need to argue someone's opinion of the earth being flat?
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by philliphaydon on Saturday June 18, 2022 @04:29AM (#31788172)
So what you're saying is that statement you negate is based on your opinion and not on any factual information?
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by unmole on Saturday June 18, 2022 @05:17AM (#31788391)
What I'm saying is that not every opinion deserves to be taken seriously enough to merit an argument. There are plenty of opinions which deserve mockery and contempt.
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by philliphaydon on Saturday June 18, 2022 @06:09AM (#31788606)
> There are plenty of opinions which deserve mockery and contempt.

Such as your opinion.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by unmole on Saturday June 18, 2022 @06:46AM (#31788726)
So, you do agree with my opinion.
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by orwin on Saturday June 18, 2022 @06:59PM (#31794564)
Yes, kinda? I mean, we basically replaced slavery by machine work, no? Its "free labor" as machines do not try to escape, and are fed with stuff we find underground so they don't compete for our food.

I don't think slavery would have been abolished without the industrial revolution.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by unmole on Sunday June 19, 2022 @07:00AM (#31798193)
> Its "free labor" as machines do not try to escape,

That is most certainly not the usual interpretation of free labor.

The overwhelming majority of slaves in the US were field hands in plantations growing cash crops. How exactly did rudimentary agricultural mechanization around the time of the American Civil War in any way precipitate abolition?

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by smthg2say624 on Saturday June 18, 2022 @03:07AM (#31787805)
I think it's very unlikely to be profitable. 11B/1M incarcerated (from the article) means a gross product of 11k per person. I would argue that while that might be enough to sustain one prisoner's marginal cost to the system, it doea not look high enough to sustain fixed costs of the prison system.
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by leereeves on Saturday June 18, 2022 @10:48AM (#31790281)
> I think it's very unlikely to be profitable.

You're right, it's not profitable for the government (although it probably is profitable for some private prisons who also receive money from the government).

"The U.S. spends $81 billion a year on mass incarceration, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, and that figure might be an underestimate."[1]

1: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/the-u-s-spends-billions...

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by acchow on Friday June 17, 2022 @07:01PM (#31785560)
Sick rap, but $11bn is hardly a rounding error in US economics.

A larger issue is the prison industrial complex, not the involuntary servitude within it

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by iancmceachern on Friday June 17, 2022 @07:45PM (#31785918)
Alex Blake : No. Nothing's bothering me.

Dr. Spencer Reid : Something's bothering you. I can always tell when you're bothered because you whisper lyrics to yourself. Hip-hop specifically. I thought it was odd at first, but then I remembered your dissertation was on the fluidity of metaphor. You seem to have a particular fondness for Nas.

Alex Blake : Wow. How did you know?

Dr. Spencer Reid : Morgan made me listen to him when we started working together. He said anybody that can't quote Illmatic is ignorant. So, do you want to talk about it?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2757560/characters/nm1131557

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by sizzle on Friday June 17, 2022 @08:59PM (#31786381)
Repped for Jedi Mind Tricks, haven’t listened to them since high school. Always thought their lyrics were so profound and in a league of its own.
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by randycupertino on Friday June 17, 2022 @05:38PM (#31784690)
There's actually a great book about this by Shane Bauer, a journalist who went undercover in Louisiana's Winn Correctional Center and wrote a book about his experiences.

It details not only the brutality of the system but also the apathy and corruption of the minimum wage employee guards. So many of the guards themselves run smuggling ops and other deals with the prisoners as they are minimum wage barely screened laborers.

It's a horrific if eye-opening book, an excellent read. I found out about it by another poster on hackernews and highly recommend!

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/38561954-american-pri...

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by pyuser583 on Saturday June 18, 2022 @02:21AM (#31787629)
The most fascinating part is how Louisiana doesn’t have prison gangs.

I get that Lousiana is different they use Civil Law and descend from France/Spain, not England.

But, no prison gangs! I figured that was just a universal thing.

They have them in France and Spain … why not Louisiana?

Because Louisiana does things different.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by z3c0 on Friday June 17, 2022 @04:48PM (#31784154)
I'll add that the basis of the wording of the 13th amendment was to sweeten the deal for southern states. They had a lot of black people in prison already (and then some), and did not like the idea of undergoing reconstruction without some source of free labor.
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by thescriptkiddie on Friday June 17, 2022 @07:43PM (#31785901)
For more information on this and the post-civil-war era in general, I highly recommend reading Black Reconstruction in America by W. E. B. Du Bois.
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Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by dang on Friday June 17, 2022 @10:42PM (#31786872)
Would you please stop posting political and ideological flamewar comments to HN? You've unfortunately been doing that repeatedly lately. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for, and therefore we have to ban such accounts.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by epakai on Friday June 17, 2022 @07:32PM (#31785827)
Just explain why Republicans defend confederate statues...

There is little to associate the modern Republican party with, for example, Lincoln's party. Are Republicans of today going to enforce those reparations you're waiting on??? Your one-sided painting of the situation is a useless way to frame reality.

[dead]
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by effingwewt on Friday June 17, 2022 @09:34PM (#31786563)
This is taught in middle school history. Much of history is fought over, and in those instances you'd have had a leg to stand on, but this right here was clear-cut.

The fact that the people with the values who called themselves Democrats back then became what are Republicans today.

Stop trying to re-write history to fit a narrative, life sucks hard enough without people making stuff up to muddy the waters.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by grzm on Friday June 17, 2022 @07:32PM (#31785829)
This ignores the realignment of the parties in the 1940s. See the formation of the States' Rights Democratic Party (Dixiecrats). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by tomohawk on Friday June 17, 2022 @07:39PM (#31785873)
Stop pushing this big lie.

The people in the Dixiecrats are known. There are lists.

Can you name 10 that switched parties? You can't.

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by btilly on Friday June 17, 2022 @08:31PM (#31786217)
You mean like Strom Thurmond, Ronald Reagan, Jesse Helms, Condoleezza Rice, Mike Pence, Rick Perry, Phil Graham, Jeane Kirkpatrick, George Wallace Jr and David Duke? All switched from Democrat to Republican and are either notable for high political office, or being racist. In some cases, both.

It is true that Civil Rights in 1964 began the switch. But it didn't really get going until Civil Rights Act (1964) really alienated Southern Democrats. Starting with Nixon's Southern First strategy, Republicans worked to appeal to them. With the rise of the religious right under Reagan there was a mass migration.

You can see https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-ov... to see that I'm not simply making this version of history up.

Did you have any references to it being just a "big lie"?

Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by the_only_law on Friday June 17, 2022 @10:48PM (#31786891)
Dammit you weren't supposed to actually name any!
Re:US prison workers produce $11B worth of goods and service... by grzm on Friday June 17, 2022 @07:43PM (#31785903)
See this comment for more expansion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31785350