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Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by ncmncm on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:22PM (#31759624)
Cycle efficiency is trivially resolved by feeding in more zero-opex power.

But hydrogen efficiency is improving as fast as all renewable tech.

Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by megaman821 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:11PM (#31760080)
I agree that hydrogen efficiency doesn't matter here, but the capital expenditure to build a giant electrolyzer with 5% utilization doesn't really make sense. The cost of the electrolyzer is the things that needs to greatly fall if hydrogen is going to be used for long-term storage.
Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by pfdietz on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:31PM (#31760774)
Electrolyzers driven by otherwise curtailed renewables would have a capacity factor much higher than 10%. If I go to https://model.energy/ and solve for the optimal solution for the US for 2011 weather and 2030 cost assumptions, the capacity factor of the electrolyzers is 43%.
Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by megaman821 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:49PM (#31760904)
That is more of a what-if. If there was more wind and solar built out there would be enough curtailed energy to run electrolyzers at 43% capacity factor. I am saying today it doesn't make sense because there isn't a lot of over-provisioning taking place. There should be but what investors are going to jump first with a curtailed energy electrolyzer when curtailed energy is low.
Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by pfdietz on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @08:23PM (#31761142)
It's a demolition of your nonsensical 5% number (which is also what-if).
Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by megaman821 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @08:46PM (#31761296)
In the state with the most solar built out in the US the curtailment is 5% https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=49276.
Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by pfdietz on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @09:38PM (#31761650)
Which is of course meaningless, since curtailment increases with the amount of installed wind/solar. What matters is how much curtailment there would be in an optimal all-renewable energy system.

I tell you what: show me a cost optimized renewable energy system in which the electrolyzers have a capacity factor of 5%.

Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by adrianN on Thursday June 16, 2022 @03:32AM (#31763410)
Hydrogen has important industrial uses. Currently we get it from natural gas. That has to change in the future.
Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by ncmncm on Thursday June 16, 2022 @05:00AM (#31763869)
Hydrogen produced using NG will be deeply undercut by electrolysed hydrogen. Extracting NG will become unsustainably expensive as zero-opex synthesis surges.
Re:Nuclear is back on the table for a green future by ncmncm on Thursday June 16, 2022 @02:31AM (#31763038)
Demand for hydrogen for all uses will drive elecrolyser use to as close to 100% as available energy permits. Ultimately, other cheap storage will be used to drive them.