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Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by hardware2win on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:12PM (#31757895)
I switched from web dev to semico this year and the amount of things i dont understand is huge

Majority of ppl here are after electrical eng.

Cs seems to be easy in compare

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by badRNG on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:18PM (#31757991)
I currently work in embedded software which involves a lot of overlapping interaction with EE and hardware design folks. The consensus is that the hardest, most fascinating field is the one you currently have the least exposure to. The easiest, least exciting field is the one you have a degree in.

In CS, you may have spent thousands or tens of thousands of hours across many years learning and growing, and still being limited in your understanding of the field as a whole. It's daunting to explore other related fields just to find out that they each have similar levels of complexity, filled with professionals who've sunk similar levels of effort, time, and years of their life into their work (who are often equally struck by the complexity of your field.)

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by hnthrowaway0315 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:20PM (#31758023)
Just curious, for a software engineer that only works with managed languages such as Java and Python, what kind of embedded job is easy to squeeze into? Thanks~~
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by badRNG on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:34PM (#31758229)
If you have experience with software, learning embedded concepts isn't a huge leap. At least in my area, aerospace, defense, and automotive tend to be the biggest, easiest employers to get started with. They will hire basically anyone with a solid grasp of C, OSes, and basic computer architecture (at an undergrad level.)

I find embedded really rewarding. A 20 year old embedded-C code base generally follows the same design patterns and coding conventions and styles that you'd use today, and don't feel "old" or like they need to be rewritten. A 7 year old JS code base, on the other hand, is largely outdated, and may be written in a nearly extinct framework by the time it is your turn to maintain it. If you get tired of giving up time on the weekends so you can learn a new framework, consider hopping over!

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by krapht on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:18PM (#31759601)
Heh, or you could be me, and escape embedded. I hate staring at 20 year old legacy C or C++98 codebases, Makefiles and Autotools make me cry, and trying to debug random hardware issues with blinking LEDs or print statements (JTAG access is too optimistic) is something only the most detail-oriented person might enjoy :).

I'm exaggerating a little, but more power to those of you who suffer through it!

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by hnthrowaway0315 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:52PM (#31758518)
Thanks for the tip, that's really interesting. I'm more into lower level stuffs so I'm taking CS courses towards OS and Compiler. I also played with a Tiva launchpad but stopped after failing bit banging multiple devices :D
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by CodeSgt on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @06:53PM (#31760463)
Know of any companies/industries that have started switching to Rust for embedded?
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by roblabla on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:52PM (#31760922)
It's still too early for Rust in the embedded space. A lot of that space has various certification requirements that Rust doesn't meet yet, and the rest of the space tends to follow too and is very conservative.

Ferrous Systems is making some good progress to make certification of Rust happen, through ferrocene[0] and other initiatives, but it will take time.

The only company I know using Rust in a sort-of embedded way is SoloKeys[1], using Rust to write the firmware of a hardware authentication token (similar to a yubikey).

[0]: https://ferrous-systems.com/ferrocene/

[1]: https://solokeys.com/

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by badRNG on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:10PM (#31760617)
Honestly no. Pretty much the only folks I've heard talking about Rust are in the application dev space. Generally the space I'm familiar with is lately being called "deeply embedded" to differentiate it from IoT platforms (which sometimes run full-blown Android)

Typically the real time space is very conservative on what types of changes are implemented, and that's largely because a lot of rt software exists on safety critical systems that need to be supported for decades.

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by ostenning on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:20AM (#31764345)
I know synthesizer manufacturers that are switching over to Rust for their embedded devices, Elektron is an obvious one that comes to mind. There is also some adaptation in the Eurorack space thanks to a lot of open source work done for stm32's, I've built a commercial Eurorack product using Rust.

Its pretty great to be honest, I think I would have a hard time going back to C/++

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by steveklabnik on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:56PM (#31760954)
Oxide Computer, my employer, is using Rust for firmware and other embedded cases.

Several automotive companies have been hiring for Rust, though what exactly they’re using it for isn’t as well known publicly yet.

There have been a few aerospace projects. And at least one train project, IIRC?

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by btkramer9 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:49PM (#31760905)
If you (or anyone else) are interested in getting into embedded email me at my username @ gmail. We're currently looking for a couple. Coming from Java/Python is a plus
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:27PM (#31758136)
There are a number of embedded gadgets that run on Android, complete with code in Java. (They aren't hard real-time systems, but not all embedded devices care about that.) Look for things that have a real graphical display and touchscreen.
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by hnthrowaway0315 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:53PM (#31758525)
Thanks! Is that different from Android/iOS development or just part of it?
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:43PM (#31759222)
Well... it's Android (or iOS) development, but it's different.

In that kind of situation, you usually own the whole device. You don't have to worry about being removed from memory because the user wanted to run some hotel's booking app or whatever - the user doesn't have the option of doing that.

You may have some additional hooks that give you some control of whatever custom hardware that comes with the device. You may or may not have to drop down into native code to access those hooks.

You can't develop against a standard phone or tablet. You have to have your hardware to develop against.

So, yeah. It's the same... but it's different.

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by netr0ute on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:20PM (#31758021)
The grass is always greener on the other side
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by actinium226 on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:34PM (#31758227)
But sometimes that's because it's fake.

Other times it has more to do with the particular brand of, ahem, fertilizer, they use.

Sometimes it really is greener and your side is shit and it's time to make a change.

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by Datenstrom on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:29PM (#31758151)
Web development usually involves very little CS it is much closer to Software Engineering. Computer Science about solving problems with math, science, and computation theory and just happens to use computers as tools. Software Engineering is about building complete and useful programs.
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by goodpoint on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @04:45PM (#31759244)
> Web development ... is much closer to Software Engineering

Is what?!

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by nsonha on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:37PM (#31760822)
There are still peole like this who think Software Engineering is Computer Sience

it's barely even engineering

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by goodpoint on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:41AM (#31764490)
I would say in well known tech companies it's the opposite: software and system engineering > computer science > web development

Typically softeng roles require a degree in CS or equivalent, and many years of experience on top of that.

Then again, in some other companies "senior engineer" is somebody who did a 3-months bootcamp and 3 years of work. It's very unfortunate.

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by nsonha on Thursday June 16, 2022 @06:49AM (#31764533)
is that because "computer science" is understood to be algorithms? That's like a super narrow area in it
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by smolder on Thursday June 16, 2022 @08:27AM (#31765236)
I've encountered some "computer science" programs that barely taught people to program in Java, included classes on Microsoft Excel and Access and didn't include any advanced math. Data structures and algorithms might get a single class to satisfy interview questions about linked lists vs arrays and what Big O notation means. It's kind of a polluted term I think, in part due to that kind of usage by community colleges and the like.
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by nsonha on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @03:23PM (#31758069)
That's very brave, from easy work high pay to hard word low pay.
Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by hardware2win on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:04PM (#31759459)
Thats how I do feel - that better cash and more jobs = web dev, but I feel like in semico there is way more interesting and impressive stuff.

Ppl who I worked with went into more web like jobs after semico

But later I'd want to work as compiler engineer

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by nurspouse on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @05:13PM (#31759553)
Semiconductor theory is more interesting, but don't even consider it unless you love math and can do standard integrals without having to look up tables.

Also, the mistake I made when I went to grad school: Semiconductors seemed to be a "new" field compared to the rest of EE. One of my undergrad professors said "They still haven't figured out what a standard textbook should contain."

In reality, from a research standpoint, it's a very mature field. Don't expect low hanging fruit. If you're going to focus on theory, expect it'll take a number of years of dedicated study before you get to the frontier. You'll need to know quantum mechanics and statistical mechanics, and some electromagnetics, just to begin studying semiconductor theory. Then a whole bunch of specialized solid state courses. Then you start studying the specific subtopics (reading key journal papers).

> But later I'd want to work as compiler engineer

Why are you wasting time with semiconductors...?

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by metaphor on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @08:38PM (#31761237)
> One of my undergrad professors said "They still haven't figured out what a standard textbook should contain."

At least for the analog domain, Gray et al[1] has been the standard entry-level gateway drug for longer than I care to remember.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/0470245999/

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by nurspouse on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @09:08PM (#31761469)
This falls more into the electronics domain, which I know is sometimes put under the "semiconductor" bucket, but in universities usually has its own domain ("microelectronics" in my day). It's a lot more focused on the circuit/high frequency model of the transistor, and builds up form it.

Semiconductor theory is more about the transistor and everything below it: Starting from quantum mechanics and statistical mechanics, derive the equations of electron/hole transport in a doped semiconductor, how the material's band structure impacts current flow, etc. The derivation of the transistor equations is often the end point.

Re:Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs... by hardware2win on Wednesday June 15, 2022 @07:07PM (#31760582)
>Why are you wasting time with semiconductors...?

Because this company does both, so after I get bored with current role and prepare better, then i'll try to switch teams

I didnt and still do not see easier way for me to get into comps (i may be naive), especially that i dont know cpp yet, which seems like must have in compilers world unless you go to e.g msft