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Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by zthrowaway on Saturday June 11, 2022 @09:50AM (#31704401)
It’s called a recession. This party isn’t over, these people who have been experiencing FOMO are just hoping for that. Tech will continue to be extremely profitable and innovating industries. That’s not going anywhere. These doom and gloom pieces are comical cringe.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by Grimburger on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:41AM (#31704762)
And here I was hoping that companies pulling in $20m revenue could continue their multi-billion dollar valuations.

An end to absurdly cheap money and all the market distortions it brings will be a good thing in the long run.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by jollybean on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:25AM (#31704640)
Says Henry Ford?

It's 'comical' to think that an industry that sprouted up in the last 20 years will continue to be expansive and profitable ad nauseaum.

The biggest funds raised are now in Crypto - a segment that so far has created nothing useful at all. Still giant experiments buyoed by Ponzi/MLM sentiment. There is no value creation.

I think it still makes a lot of sense because Fintech/global currency represents 'real opportunity' and we haven't really seen it yet.

But money as the root of all power, is inherently the type of thing to be regulated for good reason. Regulations cause ugly bureaucracy and regulatory capture - but - really, regulation is necessary. And that doesn't work well with Silicon Valley types.

AI is going to be a big deal, but will be hard to profit from directly.

I don't think the future is as bright for the Valley as it was in the past. I see an inflection point of lesser returns in the future.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by candiddevmike on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:27AM (#31704655)
It's extremely profitable because of advertising and lax data privacy laws. If we get a recession AND stricter data privacy laws, tech will tank.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by bluepizza on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:45AM (#31704803)
I think you are selecting a small subset of tech for your argument.

For example: - Apple is the one driving stronger privacy, and Apple is tech.

- Microsoft would actually get on my good side if they stopped with their telemetry and ads fuckery on Windows. If they lost all of their ad revenue today, they would still be producing cloud products, Windows, Office, Xboxes, etc.

- The reason why Netflix has lost momentum is because several other competitors built their own streaming platforms. All tech stacks, driven by cloud platforms.

- Amazon will still have their cloud platform, and their store, and their shop platform. Tougher regulation won’t remove Amazon’s edge on cloud technologies, warehouses, and logistics.

- Traditional tech companies, such as Oracle, IBM, HP, and similars won’t be affected at all by tightening of privacy.

- Heck, even Salesforce has its edge on corporate customers and B2B, and wouldn’t feel that much of a hit.

Tech is much, much more than Meta and Google. Google can still push ads based on search queries and webpage content anyway, without violating privacy.

So your argument is essentially about Meta. And that’s true, Meta is under risk. And that’s a good thing. They have created a lot of damage and need to correct their products.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by candiddevmike on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:48AM (#31704820)
Every tech company you listed has some kind of ad-based revenue. They're all data vacuums, and a lot of their current and especially future value is tied to how much user data they have access to and how they can monetize it further.

You ever hear the phrase data is the new oil?

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by spacedcowboy on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:54AM (#31704865)
“some kind of ad-based revenue” carrying a lot of water in that sentence. Apple, for example, have an ads business, but it’s a drop in the ocean compared to iPhone, or hell even iCloud.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by cudgy on Saturday June 11, 2022 @01:05PM (#31706059)
I’ll take oil over their largely useless data. A large percentage of the ad data is tailored toward the same things like “what types of ads are people forced to click on?”.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by germinalphrase on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:28AM (#31704662)
Maybe that’s good. Clear out the unprofitable and invasive underbrush. Move that talent in other directions.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by atwebb on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:22AM (#31704618)
I have no idea what is going to happen (like everyone else), what I think is going to happen is that we'll get some more innovation and cool companies/products.

As layoffs or attrition happen, a subset of those people are going to do something else, they are going to innovate and compete with the places they left (since they carry good working knowledge of problems and solutions). Companies started from ~2009-2014 did very, very well recently.

That's the optimist in me, the pessimist says it is over forever and everything is screwed always. Probably some middle ground somewhere...

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:06AM (#31704511)
> Tech will continue to be extremely profitable

I wonder if that's what people in 1999 though?

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by encoderer on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:35AM (#31704713)
No. Tech was not profitable back then. The only companies running at a profit then were the earlier generation of tech - oracle, adobe, Microsoft. Etc.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by cudgy on Saturday June 11, 2022 @01:06PM (#31706072)
How did you reach this conclusion?
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by encoderer on Saturday June 11, 2022 @07:09PM (#31709366)
The short answer is that I lived through it.

But here’s a reference. Notice the tech companies.

https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500_archive/f...

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by effingwewt on Saturday June 11, 2022 @03:00PM (#31707168)
Yea it was utter busllshit. This is all deja vu. Last bubble it was web design that overpaid and websites selling for ridiculous sums.

Now it's programmers who are overpaid and in demand flavor of the day.

BSG- 'all this has happened before, and all this will happen again'

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by shazami on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:10AM (#31704544)
They would have been right
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by ChuckNorris89 on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:11AM (#31704555)
Long term yes. But short term....
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by lmarcos on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:18AM (#31704602)
For those who didn't experience the dot com bubble: how long did it last? I remember that I was studying computer science in university back in 2005, and everyone agreed in that time that that was a career with future. I knew some software engineers back then who were making good money and jobs (although not as much demanded as nowadays) weren't scarce precisely.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by marcus0x62 on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:59AM (#31704895)
It was pretty bad until ‘03, or so, but there were profitable businesses that people flocked to. I worked for a small ISP at the time (the entire bubble/post bubble era) and we bought a lot of equipment and sometimes customer bases off of failed, venture-backed providers.

As an aside, I remember two instances that made me think this is a bubble:

1) We were having some HVAC work done at our data center, and one of the contractors kept asking if I had any “hot” stock tips and shared some he had heard previously about some idiotic .com startup (I don’t remember the exact company, but it was near pets.com levels of stupid.)

2) As a small company that didn’t pay particularly well, we went through a bunch of sales reps, and usually hired people with no telecom/ISP sales experience. One day, we hired two of the best reps from Worldcom. I asked them why they came to work for us and they said they felt like Worldcom was going to implode due to all the fraud going on: sales reps switching their customers between the MCI and Worldcom billing systems every month (which, apparently would trigger a new commission payment) and a coworker of theirs who just suddenly started getting paid $20k per month in commissions, despite not having sold anything. They said the guy tried for months to do the right thing and return the money, but after being told again and again the payments were correct said screw it, bought a sports car and started dating a stripper.

My biggest investing regret is not trading on these realizations — not Worldcom specifically, but the market as a whole. It was like a lightbulb went off about how crazy the whole industry was about six months before the bottom fell out, but I didn’t act on that knowledge at all.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by evouga on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:36AM (#31704726)
I graduated ‘07. Computer science was seen as a reasonable, but sub-optimal, career path in terms of money and job opportunities. If you were optimizing for career you did pre-med. The CS classes were small (30 students) and consisted of people who were passionate about the field irrespective of making less money than doctors or other engineers.

Today the same school has huge classes (300 students) and many don’t have much talent or passion for the subject, but have been told that “people who want good jobs do CS.” It’s true new pre-med, in other words.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by aeonik on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:41AM (#31704768)
I graduated from highschool at this time and I checked the Bureau of Labor Statistics in order to help pick my degree. Computer disciplines and health disciplines dominated the top 10 most projected growth and top salaries at the time.

If I recall correctly, "Computer Systems Analyst" was one on the top of the computer-related jobs.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by effingwewt on Saturday June 11, 2022 @03:08PM (#31707258)
CSA was a high paying well respected job as I was growing up in the 80s and 90s.When I graduated and for a few years after it was still at the top, though software jobs had been moving away from CSAs, so you ended up with a bunch of people who couldn't get decent paying jobs in the field.

Back then the meme was L2Web Design.

It quickly overtook CSA and became the hot new fad, but the bubble burst fairly quickly, and now again you have people out of work and all competing for the same few jobs.

I watched so mamy web designers, real estate agents etc scramble to find some kind of work they could do that would pay close to what they'd been making.

In the end, most made career changes.

Here we are again and it's worse. Companies infantilzed their workforce, got them to expect pay of probably 10x what they are actually worth, and now they may have to join the 'real' workforce and get an actual job.

The movie Fun With Dick and Jane explores this very well even though it's technically a comedy, it holds so much truth its scary.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by cudgy on Saturday June 11, 2022 @01:19PM (#31706173)
Salaries have been relatively stagnant for most software developers since the late 1990’s boom. Kids straight out of school were then getting 80–100k to start in mid market cities like Atlanta and Raleigh/Durham where you could buy a nice house for $160k. Many Silicon Valley salaries were in the mid 100k range and you could buy a home for 400-500k.

Many other jobs, on the other hand, have seen significant boosts in salary and many business careers have much higher top end potential than software development careers. My main point is that I disagree with the general opinion that software development is a slam dunk for people starting new careers.

I am encouraging my children to focus on their reading, writing and language skills over tech skills for their future, as they can always easily get into tech with the multitude of high level languages and mostly CRUD / web development that dominates the industry now. True CS skills are rarely needed.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by germinalphrase on Tuesday June 14, 2022 @03:33PM (#31744855)
“…and many business careers have much higher top end potential than software development careers.”

What career paths fall in this category in your opinion?

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by monkeybutton on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:26AM (#31704649)
I started studying computer science in 2007 and professors were remarking that it was the first year enrollment was back up pre-dotcom bubble levels.

Edit: there's probably some rough times coming for the glut of coding boot camps and learn to code MOOCs.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by ghaff on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:36AM (#31704721)
Enrollment probably lagged recovery a bit. Without studying graphs and so forth, I'd say things were getting back to a fairly even keel by 2004 or so in general.

>learn to code MOOCs

The VC phase of MOOCs and any great hopes for rethinking education access already pretty much flamed out. What's left is an often good and inexpensive educational resource but it's not much of a business anyway for the most part.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by decebalus1 on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:15AM (#31704582)
ergo a recession, like OP said. As long as you don't need to retire or to liquidate during the recession, you should be fine.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by gonzo41 on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:19AM (#31704613)
Dotcom crash and then 9/11, it would have been wild to be in the heart of it at that time.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by akhmatova on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:25AM (#31704638)
It was pretty boring, actually. And no, you don't want to go back to the tooling and processor speeds of that time.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by kaidon on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:35AM (#31704712)
Mmmm... getting flashbacks working on Java (generics just came out!) BEA WebLogic projects in Eclipse on Windows XP, configuring cruise control for our ant builds on some ancient Dell desktop in a closet.

Honestly, some things have changed, while others have stayed very similar.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by gonzo41 on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:41AM (#31704769)
Everything you've mentioned I've had to support. The horrors of the past echo forward as business critical apps that know one really knows anymore.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by ben174 on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:27AM (#31704652)
Covid will be 1000x more impactful when looking back at the two events.
Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by bigDinosaur on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:44AM (#31704797)
Maybe, but 9/11 had profound consequences which I don't think we fully appreciate yet. For example, you can trace some of Putin's thinking (apparently) to the US response to 9/11 in terms of security and the hypocrisy of the West.

Contrast the effect of the Spanish Flu: it's just...not really considered important compared to what came a few years after. Covid may well be similar. We will see I suppose.

Re:Silicon Valley braces for the good times to end by johnisom2001 on Saturday June 11, 2022 @10:10AM (#31704541)
And it was true. Your poin?