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Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by stevesimmons on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:01PM (#31686817)
But how does blockchain help here, compared with other ways of syncing data?
Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by radicalbyte on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:15PM (#31686994)
You'd be stupid to use, say, ETH to do it when you can simply have multiple parties sign and publish events in a distributed append-only log, which they keep syncronised. That doesn't need PoW or to be a currency.
Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by ipaddr on Thursday June 09, 2022 @06:19PM (#31687678)
How do you deal with multiple copies with different signing parties who claim to have the true copy?
Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by radicalbyte on Friday June 10, 2022 @12:59PM (#31696706)
Erm the entire point of having multiple parties sign is you get the quorum which is how you avoid this issue.

Sure, you have a limited number of participants and some tweaking to do on the quorum (in some cases you might want all parties to sign).

But hey - the blockchain cool-aid gang tried to sell it as a solution for COVID contact tracing. Which is beyond laughable. The entire industry is a shillfest.

Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by Clent on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:26PM (#31687111)
Without the blockchain consensus mechanism, how else can you guarantee the log has only be appended?
Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by moehm on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:35PM (#31687214)
With a hash chain[0], an idea from 1981.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_chain

Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by presidentender on Thursday June 09, 2022 @06:33PM (#31687815)
I am interested in this and I have an emotional desire for you to be right; I'm skeptical of every application I've ever seen for blockchain.

That being said, it is not clear to me how a hash chain guarantees that the data it stores hasn't been modified.

Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by moehm on Thursday June 09, 2022 @07:18PM (#31688185)
Okay, maybe I should have posted the link to the Merkle tree page[0] instead.

The basic idea is, you have a chain of 'transactions' (like in bitcoin or think git commits) und you store the hash of the content + the hash of the member before as a checksum. This way, if you alter the log file, the hash for the modified entry is suddenly different, and the chain breaks, because the next member used your hash as input to calculate their checksum. So you can not only see that the file was tampered with, you can also say which entry was modified.

Edit: Merkle trees[0] generalize this concept into trees, which are e.g. used in ZFS (the file system), git and in the blockchain.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree

Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by presidentender on Friday June 10, 2022 @01:47PM (#31697261)
It seems to me that if you have a copy of the information locally and compare it to the remote, you can see whether they diverged with or without a hash - the hash certainly makes it faster, but it's not clear to me that a hash chain or a Merkle tree offers a guarantee that's as powerful as the blockchain's promise.

(Social factors and forks to change our minds on blockchains notwithstanding)

Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by thwarted on Thursday June 09, 2022 @06:16PM (#31687648)
Like git. The value isn't necessarily in that there can't be conflicts, but that conflicts are straightforward to surface and resolve.
Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by jazzyjackson on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:10PM (#31686934)
Anti-Corruption tech. If everyone's scores are just stored in a SQL databse, people can pay off officials to change their grade, Ferris Bueller-style. Blockchain prevents any province or official from having superuser power over the data.
Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by frostwarrior on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:25PM (#31687097)
That would make sense if: - There weren't other methods to prevent tampering - Governments didn't want anti-corruption methods without having admin powers to exclude themselves.
Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by kareemsabri on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:58PM (#31687462)
This doesn't really make sense. We have SQL databases with permissions to prevent tampering, and audit logs, and myriad other solutions.

In addition, I don't see what prevents an "official" from writing a social credit transaction (disclaimer that I have no idea how China's "social credit" system works or even what it is) to the blockchain. Nodes validate to solve disagreements where one node says a transaction happened that did not. This does not appear to be the same type of dishonesty being referred to here.

Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by threeseed on Thursday June 09, 2022 @06:15PM (#31687635)
You can achieve this in a SQL database with proper processes, auditing and controls.

The world has functioned up until the magical dawning of the blockchain.

Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by dboreham on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:18PM (#31687026)
The other ways require you to trust the operators of other nodes you sync with.
Re:Do kwon sent $80M a month to secret wallets? by zamfi on Thursday June 09, 2022 @05:37PM (#31687242)
The only between-nodes trust blockchain relieves you of is trust in the history of a multiparty transaction log.

A blockchain doesn't prevent individual parties from lying about things only they would know about -- if that's what's on your chain, you still need trust.