News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by routerl on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @01:38PM (#31671086)
> Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates

> Why is it so easy?

I don't know, it doesn't seem easy to me. I mean, it seems like the result of a ton of long-term planning to implement processes that allow each instance of this to be easy. But the fight against electronic voting machines was fierce, and took a long time.

We lost, by the way.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by shadowgovt on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:03PM (#31671569)
Having some familiarity with the Pennsylvania election machinery specifically, there is nothing about this story that required (or would have been stopped by the absence of) electronic voting machines.

If it was the old iVotronic system, there would be no ballot to check against (the vote was held in the machine memory in redundant locations), but that's no protection against the machine being activated illegitimately and the judge of elections entering illegitimate votes. In the new system, the machines are just tabulators and physical "SAT-style" fill-the-oval vote cards are used as ballots, but again, there's nothing stopping a judge of elections from filling out a pile of invalid ballots and entering them into the machine if the other team members (majority and minority inspector, and the clerks of election) have been bribed to look the other way. In fact, the judge would have to do that, because the fraud will be obvious if the total count of record doesn't match the total count of paper ballots in the box... But structurally, this is equivalent to just activating the iVotronic machine several additional times to cast fraudulent digital-only ballots.

The nature of the fraud here is simple, old-fashioned stuffing the ballot box, and the only protection against that is physically barring access to the hardware (be it a computer or a pine box with a padlock), which is incompatible with the duties of the judge of elections.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by jaywalk on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @01:44PM (#31671215)
There is no mention of electronic voting machines. Nothing described in this press release would even require electronic voting machines. They cast actual (fraudulent) votes and then falsified the records in the polling books to match.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by bpicolo on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @01:45PM (#31671245)
> The voting machines at each polling station, including in the 39th Ward, 36th Division, generate records in the form of a printed receipt documenting the use of each voting machine...Demuro would add fraudulent votes on the voting machine

Sure there is

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by tunesmith on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:47PM (#31672195)
They didn't hack the machine. They actually voted on the machines multiple times. The same scheme would have worked with mechanical machines or paper ballots.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hef19898 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @03:51PM (#31673063)
I know for a fact that where I vote it is impossible to vote more than once (or close to, Berlin managed to fuck up voting last year for some reason). How is it impossible? Everyone is centrally registered with their primary residence. Based on these records, invitations are sent out prior to elections. With that invitation, or passport or ID, you show up at your voting local (of which there are plenty, the school just across the street has three of those and it is far from the only place in our town). There volunteers check you invitation or ID, hand you your ballot, verify you drop in the ballot box and strike from the voting list for this election. Not on the list? No ballot. No documents? No ballot. Since there are thousands of those locales, preliminary results are available in the first two hours after voting closes. We have no waiting lines (most of the time, Berlin is the exception that proofs the rule but then we talk about Berlin...). Mail-in voting works just fine and without any constraints. ballots are archived (for a very long time, I'm too lazy to check the exact duration), so if there are any doubts everything can be rechecked.

No idea how the US just fails at the most simple thing in a democracy, voting. Or rather I have an idea, with gerrymandering and such shenanigans it seems to be by design to keep certain demographics from voting too much.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by jaywalk on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @04:26PM (#31673512)
How would it be "impossible" to vote more than once when the volunteers who are enforcing that have been paid off to allow it to happen? That's exactly what happened in this case.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hef19898 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @04:46PM (#31673827)
Sure, and with hundreds of those places, and at least 4 volunteers per place, just how many votes do you think you can stuff? Plus any statistically significant deviation will be spotted. But besides theory we never had more then the odd case affecting a handful of votes every handful of elections for almost 80 years, so history proofs that for all practical reasons it is 1) not happening 2) impossible to do at a scale that would impact results and 3) easy to spot.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by rootusrootus on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @07:49PM (#31675965)
You're rehashing literally the same exact argument we're having about US voting, it's not different. Some people think fraud is easy, some people say what you just did, that statistically it's very unlikely.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by rootusrootus on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @07:48PM (#31675957)
> No idea how the US just fails at the most simple thing in a democracy, voting.

You're generalizing too far. Much of the US works just like you described for your local voting. The US has tens of thousands of voting precincts with their own rules. For better or worse.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by Blahah on Thursday June 09, 2022 @04:26AM (#31678837)
> The US has tens of thousands of voting precincts with their own rules

Surely that's the failure being described. There are always parts of the US where corruption is winning, and those places ultimately have enough political or other capital that they are worth corrupting, and that puts the system of the entire country at continuous risk.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by xienze on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @04:25PM (#31673503)
> With that invitation, or passport or ID

Well you see, having to show ID to vote is considered racist in the US. It’s OK if you didn’t know that, lots of people from other countries are dumbfounded to learn that all you have to do in the US is show up and give the poll workers the name of a registered voter in order to vote.*

* Well, in some states you have to show ID. But one political party in particular fights very hard against this requirement.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hef19898 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @04:51PM (#31673921)
I followed this discussion in the US quite close actually. Simply because we need to have government ID. It is racist to require it if access to those IDs is, in praxis, limited for the demographics that should have limited access to voting. It is not if you are required to have government ID, and it is very easy to get one. getting a provisional passport for travel, with a validity of 6 months, takes all of one hour tops over here in Germany.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hamburglar on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:21PM (#31674392)
Precisely. You can’t make something a prerequisite to voting if every voter doesn’t have it. And the US is very much against the concept of a national ID. So you can’t have a national ID requirement.

And as another commenter points out, it’s not that an ID requirement is racist, it’s that the motivations for it, knowing its impact, are racist.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hef19898 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:26PM (#31674466)
Man, the US is such a strange place. It is also the only country I know of, top of my head, that doesn't have national ID requirements. No idea why this can be seen as bad thing.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by mulmen on Thursday June 09, 2022 @03:29AM (#31678501)
Too much power in too few hands.

Compare the US to the EU.

The US is over 4.5x the population of Germany, the largest EU member. The entire EU is only about 25% more people than the US. California alone is larger than all but four of the EU member nations.

The US Federal Government is more like the EU itself rather than any member country. The states are more analogous to the countries in the EU.

So a US National ID is kind of like a EU Citizen ID.

What we have instead is an agreement between states and the federal government on ID guidelines. From that perspective it’s not so different.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by rootusrootus on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @07:51PM (#31675979)
It's fundamental to the country. We are a federal republic of states, and as such the real power lies with the states. The feds get the nukes, sure, but culturally we are reluctant to hand more power to the central government of a nation of 330 million people.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hamburglar on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @06:02PM (#31674923)
Yeah, I don’t completely get this one either, but the way we are raised is that national ID is somehow a slippery slope towards federal agents wandering the street demanding “papers, please.”

Interestingly enough, the intersection between those who would advocate for national voter ID requirements and those who would fundamentally oppose a national ID is very large.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by ModernMech on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:02PM (#31674105)
> Well you see, having to show ID to vote is considered racist in the US.

This is not the argument people are making, so I hope you aren’t making it intentionally. No one is saying that requiring voting id is inherently racist.

The argument is that requiring voting id without a commensurate effort to make sure everyone has voter id ends up disproportionately affecting minorities. These efforts are subsequently dubbed racist by political opponents because the people implementing them know this to be true and do it anyway, because they prefer the outcome that minorities are disenfranchised.

Republicans have been found in court to play these tricks with “surgical precision”, to make sure the rules they come up with impact minorities more than whites.

Another example is closing polling places so that it takes 8 hours to vote in black precincts whereas it takes 8 minutes to vote in white precincts. Yes, the act of closing a polling place is not an overtly racist thing to do. But the way in which it’s done and the actual impact make clear it is done with the intent of disenfranchising minorities.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by xienze on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:41PM (#31674675)
> The argument is that requiring voting id without a commensurate effort to make sure everyone has voter id ends up disproportionately affecting minorities.

Democrats have never negotiated in good faith over the requirement to make IDs available though whenever the debate is brought up. States like Wisconsin require voter ID and will make an ID for voting available for free, through the mail, and yet there is still opposition that always relies on handwavy arguments about how utterly baffling and difficult it is to obtain a photo ID, even in Wisconsin. Arguments which are ultimately disingenuous and yet still persist in light of accommodations by states that require voter ID.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by rootusrootus on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @07:53PM (#31676002)
It's a pretty standard tribal division, much like abortion and everything else. Each side refuses reasonable compromises because they perceive that it would be a slippery slope allowing the other side to ultimately prevail.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by ModernMech on Thursday June 09, 2022 @11:17AM (#31682292)
Like I said, unfortunately Republicans have been found in court to have used similar tactics intentionally to disenfranchise minority voters. When they have full control of states they show their hand by passing voter ID laws without commensurate GOTV funding. So we know they are acting in bad faith before it even starts.

If Republicans were serious about non-racist voter ID laws they could have demonstrated that in Georgia when they overhauled election laws there. They didn’t and we know why: more “surgical precision”.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by tunesmith on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:50PM (#31674789)
In Wisconsin? With that legislature? Want to guess how easy it will be for them, over time, to make certain cuts to the program that makes it so easy for everyone to get a free ID?
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by tunesmith on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:28PM (#31674496)
> But the way in which it’s done and the actual impact make clear it is done with the intent of disenfranchising minorities.

Which is racist.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by dismantlethesun on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @04:37PM (#31673687)
In this case it looks like you could bribe the volunteers to simply give ballots without checking for ID, then bribe the overseers to validate the fraud.

So long as the people who’s votes you are stealing don’t come in, then you are safe.

There are no systems safe from fraud if you allow human judgment to be a part of the system.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by Izkata on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @08:26PM (#31676233)
> So long as the people who’s votes you are stealing don’t come in, then you are safe.

There's a pretty good chance of being safe even if they do come in: https://nypost.com/2020/11/03/houston-woman-turned-away-from...

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hef19898 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @04:58PM (#31674053)
elections are as fraud save as they are because you have humans in the loop. Hundreds of them, all over the place. And it is not judgement, but decentralized supervision that solves this problem for you. Not some flimsy electronic system without auditable paper trail.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by dismantlethesun on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @06:14PM (#31675066)
Hundreds of humans who can all work for a single individual or organization. Without any additional rules, adding more people to supervise is simply security theater.

Note, I am not a general proponent of electronic voting machines either. They can easily make fraud easier by reducing the number of people to bribe to the few engineers with access to the blackbox code and the few officials who certify that the code is valid and was used on Election Day.

[dead]
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by SV_BubbleTime on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @11:34PM (#31677308)
I can’t tell if this is a joke.

Is that really a Democrat position? I feel like there must be a “quiet part” no one is saying out loud, because it makes no sense to me.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by krapp on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @11:55PM (#31677400)
The "quiet part" is the US' long history of using ID requirements and other tactics to suppress and disenfranchise black and other minority voting[0,1], especially in the South, for example in North Carolina[1] and Texas[2], going all the way back to poll taxes[3].

If considered in a vacuum, completely absent the context of historical precedent, voter IDs seem like a simple common sense solution to the (practically nonexistent) problem of voter fraud. Unfortunately, we are talking about the US, and it's simply not possible to assume good faith.

[0]https://time.com/5855885/voter-registration-history-race/

[1]https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/new-...

[2]https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/1038354159/n-c-judges-strike-...

[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_taxes_in_the_United_State...

[4]https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/22/politics/ted-cruz-texas-voter...

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by SV_BubbleTime on Thursday June 09, 2022 @09:16PM (#31688874)
So, are you saying Europe’s voter ID laws exist to solve no problem? Because from where I sit, confidence in the electoral process seems to be a larger problem preventing than imaginary racism using real racism of low expectations.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by makomk on Thursday June 09, 2022 @03:48AM (#31678611)
Yes, that is really a Democrat position, along with opposing signature checks on postal votes, supporting sending out unsolicited mass postal voting forms, opposing removing people who've moved states from the electoral register on the state they left, dismantling any system for identifying people recorded as having voted in more than one state, and fighting even the most basic checks on their programs for literally paying workers to fill out voters' ballots for them. The stated justification for all of these is the same: not doing so is an evil attempt to suppress the black vote and disenfranchise black voters. The ACLU and the non-Fox News media generally support them on this. American politics is wild by European standards.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by LadyCailin on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:22PM (#31671853)
How is this different than dropping in additional paper ballots into a ballot box? If it isn’t, then this has nothing to do with the machine, but rather control of the “ballot box”.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by cyberge99 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:24PM (#31671886)
Tabulator could have printed a receipt from scantron sheet feed.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by seoaeu on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:00PM (#31671502)
Stuffing paper ballots into a box or tapping the screen of an electronic voting machine are both very easy. This stuff has to be fixed at a higher level, like by making sure the folks running the precinct aren’t corrupt or by having a neutral observer present
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by ohgodplsno on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:19PM (#31671810)
Stuffing paper ballots is infinitely harder if your election system isn't entirely fucked. Multiple assessors, both from parties and individuals who just want to ensure that everything goes right, invalidation of the entire ballot box if any cheating is found post-votes, increase the amount of voting places so that scaling this up becomes impossible.

Voting has been solved centuries ago. And voting machines will never be part of the solution.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by abeyer on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @03:10PM (#31672481)
> invalidation of the entire ballot box if any cheating is found post-votes

That seems to just introduce a new vulnerability where you could intentionally get caught cheating in precincts that leaned contrary to your beliefs to invalidate everyone there who voted legitimately.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by ohgodplsno on Thursday June 09, 2022 @03:28AM (#31678487)
No. Any attempts at cheating caught live just invalidate that bulletin (and said cheater is brought to the police). With a well organised setup (having a record of who already voted, having a transparent ballot box that is only open for a moment when your identity has been verified, multiple assessors watching for the extremely obvious "hey there's multiple envelopes that fell in there"), cheating is already extremely hard, for almost no gain. Maybe you can stuff two votes instead of one, but at what cost, potentially invalidating hundreds for your candidate ? And since voter counts are recorded and compared to bulletin counts, even a difference of one will start an inquiry and potentially invalidate.

If you multiply the voting places, where instead of having a single place which will tally over 10k votes, have 15 places that tally 700 votes each, you have now made both cheating much harder, and less worth it in the scenario you propose.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by seoaeu on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:34PM (#31672028)
> Multiple assessors, both from parties and individuals who just want to ensure that everything goes right

The story is literally about ballot stuffing at precincts where there weren’t observers like that watching. Which makes the electronic voting part a complete red herring

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by sidlls on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @03:07PM (#31672439)
And 100% of the votes from those precincts without observers should’ve been discarded. The real problem is that we don’t fund elections properly. This sort of thing isn’t a problem in other developed democracies. It’s only one here by design.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by seoaeu on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @03:31PM (#31672795)
What you’re proposing is that the official in charge of running elections can cut funding to precincts that usually vote for his opponent, and then later invalidate all ballots cast there?
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by wholinator2 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @04:20PM (#31673437)
I thought that they were simultaneously suggesting that funding be increased in a concrete and not easily reverse way. But I do see your point
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by ohgodplsno on Thursday June 09, 2022 @03:59AM (#31678660)
I can register as an assessor for free (both for me and my city). The cases where cities have to pay for some is extremely rare. If you live in a city with even a hundred inhabitants, the chances to find at least one that is interested in their democratic process is already high.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by sidlls on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @10:28PM (#31676988)
That's an incredibly uncharitable read of my comment.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by seoaeu on Thursday June 09, 2022 @12:29AM (#31677562)
I wasn't trying to be uncharitable. You said that we should have retroactively discarded 100% of votes from specific precincts, so I pointed out why allowing selective invalidation like that is a really bad idea.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by sidlls on Thursday June 09, 2022 @01:14PM (#31683967)
No, you uncharitably ignored the majority of my comment in your haste to make a sarcastic response.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by seoaeu on Friday June 10, 2022 @12:17PM (#31696173)
I ignored the part where you called for mundane improvements, and zeroed in on the small bit where you called for blatant voter disenfranchisement
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by unethical_ban on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:42PM (#31672127)
Other than speeding up voting calculations, reducing paper usage, enabling arbitrary language use at the booth, and other things.

If electronic fraud is a concern, we should mitigate it, because encryption, identity, and date integrity are solved problems.

Furthermore, spot auditing and paper receipts/copies are a thing, or could be.

(Also, voting may be "solved" but voting systems and universal access to the ballot has not. First past the post voting is possibly the worst system to use short of flipping a coin.)

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hef19898 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @03:54PM (#31673103)
Access to polling places has also been solved, including India where officials carry voting machines through the jungle for or only a handful of voters.

And first past the goal post works, or rather can work. It is aggressive Gerrymandering, allocating senators by state and not population and the electoral college that screw it up in the US.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by r00fus on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:32PM (#31674552)
FPTP is a disaster. Even if you have perfectly representative elections, FPTP essentially disallows anything but 2 parties. This makes both parties more easily corruptible (less people to bribe if you're paying for specific result or legislation).

Multiple parties makes gaming elections much harder for moneyed interests.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hef19898 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @05:34PM (#31674589)
France has FPTP, and it works for a lot more than two parties. Admittedly, France has a second round run off in case no candidate has more than 50% of votes in the first round so.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by seoaeu on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @06:57PM (#31675508)
Having two rounds is by definition not first past the post. And in fact that is the difference that makes it possible in France for third and fourth parties to get non-trivial support in the first round.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by r00fus on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:03PM (#31676464)
> France has FPTP

For the vast majority of it's existence, the 5th republic has had proportional representation in the legislature (only changed with Sarkozy, who instituted 2-round elections - IIRC).

Presidential has been 2-round for much longer, perhaps from the beginning of the 5th republic.

Straight FPTP as implemented in many places in the US allows plurality winners (ie, winners that don't get 50% of the votes), France's system does not.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by ohgodplsno on Thursday June 09, 2022 @03:55AM (#31678643)
>For the vast majority of it's existence, the 5th republic has had proportional representation in the legislature (only changed with Sarkozy, who instituted 2-round elections - IIRC).

Uh, no. The Fifth has has two round legislative elections since its beginning. The entire reason for it was that the Fourth and Third showed what an overly powerful parliament caused, as well as the relative instability of having only a single round to elect députés.

Hence, the Fifth was started by a former general who thought that putting immense amounts of power in the president was a good idea. Because clearly counter powers are overrated.

Additionally, french legislative elections can have a very peculiar situation where the second round has three candidates, but that requires a specific amount of votes and to all be extremely close. I believe there's 10 of them planned this year according to polls, over 577 circonscriptions.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by r00fus on Thursday June 09, 2022 @12:07PM (#31682967)
I stand corrected. Apparently proportional representation only happened in the 1986 elections when Mitterrand made that change for that single election [1]. Amusing reading back on what happened vs. what I heard about from others.

Regarding the 3 candidates in 2nd round - yes that's only possible because France allows 3 & 4 candidates to go into 2nd round if they have over 12.5%. This is usually not the case, so 3-rounds are very limited but as you indicate they do present a plurality win possibility.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_French_legislative_electi...

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by hef19898 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @09:35PM (#31676663)
You are correct.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by ohgodplsno on Thursday June 09, 2022 @03:30AM (#31678503)
>Other than speeding up voting calculations

Hilarious to read that as the US presidential elections take over a week to tally results, when french elections have 90% of the results at 10PM on the same evening (most voting places close at 7PM)

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by rootusrootus on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @07:46PM (#31675940)
> Voting has been solved centuries ago.

Yes, but then we threw in a huge wrench when we decided that votes needed to be secret, too.

Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by ohgodplsno on Thursday June 09, 2022 @03:29AM (#31678495)
No. Voting has been secret also for centuries. Paper ballots allow secrecy of the vote _and_ verification of voters. Something that electronic ballots will never be able to do.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by seoaeu on Friday June 10, 2022 @12:12PM (#31696122)
As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, paper ballots wouldn’t have prevented this case
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by tastyfreeze on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @03:43PM (#31672949)
You can never be sure that people running the precinct, or any office, are not corrupt. The rules should be such that it doesn't matter who is in office. Violation of the rules must be met with stiff penalty or the rules are not really a deterrent.
Re:Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to elect... by csee on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @07:09PM (#31675620)
It's not about actual vulnerabilities (although it may also be), it is about the general public's confidence in the legitimacy of the election. Voting machines do not instill confidence, and that is a bad thing for a democracy. I don't care about the microcosm of improved efficiency. That's not the thing to try to make ultra efficient at the cost of legitimacy.