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Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by Retric on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @11:31PM (#31662876)
That’s simply not true, US electricity use per person has gone down.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by bmitc on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @11:33PM (#31662893)
Do you have a source? How is that calculated? I suspect it's a rather complicated calculation. Questions like what defines a person in this context, what defines electricity usage, where did it go or come from if it did change, etc. seem like important ones to answer.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by Retric on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @11:46PM (#31662968)
I don’t have the source where I read it, but it’s easy enough to calculate and the change is significant:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/201794/us-electricity-co... https://www.statista.com/statistics/183457/united-states--re...

  3887 TWH in 2010 / 309.3 million people = 12.57 MWH per person.
  3954 TWH in 2019 / 328.3 million people = 12.04 MWH per person.
  3930 TWH in 2021 / 331.9 million people = 11.84 MWH per person.
And that’s with over a million electric cars added.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by mlyle on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @12:26AM (#31663180)
Likewise if one looks at total energy consumption in the US:

    2000: 98.7 quadrillion BTU / 281.4 million people = 350 million BTU/person/year
    2019: 100.5 quadrillion BTU / 328.3 million people = 306 million BTU/person/year.
On the other hand, increased use of global manufacturing and reliance on ocean transport is concealed by this metric. Still, it doesn't look like overall things are getting worse.

For the CO2 metric:

    2000: 20.9 tonnes per capita
    2019: 15.7 tonnes per capita
https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/monthly/pdf/sec1_19.pdf
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by bmitc on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @01:27AM (#31663584)
According to the below EIA article, things are getting worse worldwide.

> Global electricity consumption continues to increase faster than world population, leading to an increase in the average amount of electricity consumed per person

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=44095#:~:tex....

Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by mlyle on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:03AM (#31663825)
Well, sure. You have developing countries... developing, in addition to the (difficult to quantify) outsourcing effects that I mentioned above.

Note that I really want electricity usage to go up a lot, too. It's just overall primary energy usage that we want to stay level or go down. That's why I used the primary energy usage metric. After all, moving to an electric car or replacing natural gas heating with a heat pump "increases electricity usage."

Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by wmf on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @01:05AM (#31663448)
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by denkmoon on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @12:22AM (#31663154)
Don't feel it's really valid to calculate this by nation state. The system here is the entire planet, not individual nations.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by Jensson on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @12:46AM (#31663324)
But that energy also serves way more people than before. Chinas energy use went up a lot, but their standard of living also went up a lot and is now comparable to cold war USA/Europe. You can't leave that out.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by jotm on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @01:42AM (#31663681)
You really believe their standard of living is like Cold War times US/Europe? Wtf is with these misconceptions.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by mlyle on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @02:09AM (#31663852)
I really hate flames like this, especially since I can't guess which side you're arguing on:

- "China's modern cities far outshine Cold War Europe-- Wtf is with these misconceptions?"

- "A whole lot of China is rural and undeveloped. You think it's like Cold War Europe-- Wtf is with these misconceptions"

Maybe make an argument instead of just being unkind to other commenters.

Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by jotm on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @07:37AM (#31665867)
I apologize for that. It was really an impulsive, useless comment.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by Teever on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @11:34PM (#31662903)
Is that because the US exported manufacturing to Asia?
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by SamReidHughes on Tuesday June 07, 2022 @11:50PM (#31662983)
We've had basic heating, insulation, and lighting efficiency improvements. Also, population has moved from colder to warmer climates. You can probably count up your personal energy usage and see that it's reduced. LED lighting, CRT televisions obsolete, vehicle efficiency, and so on.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by Grimburger on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @12:51AM (#31663351)
Residential usage is about 1/5th of total consumption in the US

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/

Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by SamReidHughes on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @11:41AM (#31669016)
The same facts apply to commercial usage.
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by Teever on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @12:13AM (#31663108)
Yes but where were all these things made? And is the energy that was used to make them accounted for?
Re:Addressing AI’s energy cost by sdenton4 on Wednesday June 08, 2022 @12:48AM (#31663340)
Meanwhile, people mostly use a couple devices with high energy efficiency that are used for basically everything, instead of twenty lower quality devices...