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Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by ethanbond on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:19AM (#31608635)
Yeah, since the BI story – and in particular his attempt to frontrun it and turn his personal legal troubles into a culture war battleground – I think we can assume pretty slimy tactics from Musk.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by deelowe on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:48AM (#31609043)
I started assuming this after Musk called that cave exploration expert in Thailand a pedophile.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by karmakurtisaani on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:58AM (#31610114)
After that comment I decided never to buy a Tesla if I can afford one. Good car, scumbag CEO.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by TremendousJudge on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:05PM (#31610214)
Haven't the alternatives caught up to them, anyway? Most of the EV coverage I see nowadays is for cars made by traditional manufacturers, and are always saying that they match teslas (or are big improvements, such as the f150 lightning)
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by Sohcahtoa82 on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:55PM (#31610787)
I'm really hoping someone creates a viable alternative to the Roadster 2.0
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by olyjohn on Friday June 03, 2022 @01:41PM (#31611393)
There's plenty of alternative vaporware cars out there that will also never hit production.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by Sohcahtoa82 on Friday June 03, 2022 @03:25PM (#31612565)
I'm not convinced it's vaporware. Behind schedule? Absolutely. But Elon has always been shitty about time estimates.

Same with Cybertruck and the Semi. They will come out eventually. It might be another 2-4 years, but they will happen.

I even think full self driving will eventually be achieved. It might be another 10 years, but we'll get there.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by sylens on Friday June 03, 2022 @02:12PM (#31611771)
Yup, this was my jumping off point as well
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by YinglingLight on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:35AM (#31609745)
When was this?

There is a big difference between Elon Musk pre and post-March 2018. For reasons that would take weeks to explain.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by mdasen on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:05PM (#31610212)
It looks like it was July 15, 2018.

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/elon-musk-calls-diver-who-helpe...

If there's a big difference pre/post-March 2018, it would be nice if you could point people in a direction.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by tristanMatthias on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:04PM (#31610199)
Curious, what’s the TLDR on this? Or some resources to learn more?
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by deelowe on Monday June 06, 2022 @11:43AM (#31641925)
Some kids got trapped in a cave in Thailand. Elon said Tesla would build a small submarine to get them out. A local cave expert who was advising the Thai government on how to handle the rescue operation said the Tesla idea was a pipedream and suggested a more practical solution. He called the Tesla proposal a "PR Stunt." Elon got upset and started bad mouthing the guy on twitter, eventually calling him a pedophile. Elon's rationale seemed to be that because the guy was an older, white male living in Thailand, he must be into pedophilia... The guy sued for defamation and Elon ended up winning because his defense argued Elon didn't really mean it. I'm serious...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50695593

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by stickfigure on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:50AM (#31609965)
Of all the things to complain about Musk, this seems like the weakest. Some dude started a twitter fight with Musk and got called a "pedo guy" in response. Sounds like a South African response to me. I'm guessing you've never spent time with Australians, they call everyone cunts. Who cares?

Potty mouth is not a mortal sin.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by kentm on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:16PM (#31610366)
Maybe you missed the part where Musk hired a private investigator to prove that the guy was a pedophile. The investigator lied about the evidence, and Musk did no due diligence but directed his PR team to leak those lies to the media, and then threw a hissy fit when the media didn't reprint those lies uncritically.

The whole "pedo guy is just a generic insult" is a laughable lie that Musk tried to float in court. The evidence is that Musk tried to ruin a guy because he had the audacity to call out his publicity stunt when directly asked during an interview. You need to stop defending Musk on this because what he did was incredibly dick-headed and vindictive.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by stickfigure on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:29PM (#31610506)
The investigator lying about evidence is news to me, but hiring an investigator when someone sues you seems perfectly fair game? I mean, if you sued me over something frivolous and I had the resources for it, I'd tear your life apart too. Exchanging insults on twitter is one thing, filing lawsuits is something completely different.

Nobody comes across looking pretty here, sure. But it's a real struggle to care one way or another about it. Sounds like that's exactly what the jury thought.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by kentm on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:47PM (#31610702)
Musk hired the investigator before the diver sued. The diver sued because Musk basically said "No it wasn't just an insult, I really believe he's a pedophile and I have evidence" to multiple parties. Musk tried to ruin a guys life because he said that Musk's submarine was a publicity stunt. In no way, shape, or form are what they did equivalent and you have a serious moral deficiency if you think they are. Its incredible to me that anyone would try to draw a moral equivalency here.

> Nobody comes across looking pretty here, sure. But it's a real struggle to care one way or another about it. Sounds like that's exactly what the jury thought.

The jury found for Musk because Musk didn't name the guy in his tweets. Thats why the diver lost. I don't think you can extrapolate from that verdict to "actually they were both equally bad."

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by the_only_law on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:54AM (#31610049)
> I'm guessing you've never spent time with Australians, they call everyone cunts. Who cares?

Being called a cunt by some jackass Australian and being called a pedophile by a wealthy influential individual are probably going to have wildly different effects on your life and how people see you. being a cunt alone is not a serious offense that ruins the lives of everyone involved.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by sdfhdhjdw3 on Friday June 03, 2022 @01:03PM (#31610891)
> Of all the things to complain about Musk, this seems like the weakest.

I would argue it's the strongest.

"Pedo" is one of those accusations that sticks around associated with your name, often even when it's false.

Knowing that, Elon Musk, one of the best known people on the planet at this stage, called this to a real person. This can ruin a person's life. Did he have any evidence, even circumstantial? Nope. Did he have a reason for this attack? Only that he felt slighted.

So Elon Musk is ok with potentially ruining someone's life if he even as much as feels slighted.

I think even is the strongest hint of what his character is like. And character is, you could argue, the most important predictor of future behavior. I took this hint of character at face value, and after that I've never been surprised when I've since heard accusations of fraud or sexual harassment. No surprise whatsoever.

So if your reaction to this is Elon Must has potty mouth, you're either breathtakingly stupid or dishonest.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by daniel-cussen on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:51AM (#31609091)
Hey after all that activity on Twitter you gotta give him leeway at some point, just like a cop who's been in a thousand conflicts gets a pass when things go wrong, there has to be a margin of error.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by Broken_Hippo on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:57AM (#31609186)
I'm hoping this was sarcasm.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by daniel-cussen on Friday June 03, 2022 @05:15PM (#31613722)
Like you're in any position to chide me?

It's a common South African insult, in fact I've heard classmates say it to one another in early high school for dating girls in late middle school. It's a word, people sometimes say it. There's a context. It wasn't a formal accusation. One in thousands of comments, you actually expect perfection from Musk and police?

Let me tell you as someone who has pulled off exactly that in 28 conflicts, as if they were 28 chess matches, I haven't fucked up this whole time. It's fucking impossible in the long term. Narrowest odds imaginable. That's not fucking up at all, much harder than merely winning 28 times in a row, which is already staggering. You have to let us fuck up sometimes, let it go. Someday I'll fuck up. Especially due to manipulation eg a racketeer as a last resort, when arrest was imminent, angled his back to get injured by police, in order to get a lighter sentence by countering the guilt of crime with an accusation of police brutality (SFPD police didn't fall for it, not even close).

The bad guys want us to fuck up, it's not easy to foil them every single time. Saying this is possible implies strict inferiority on the part of the bad guys.

And if you expect perfection from the police, you ought to tell them that next time you call them to come vindicate you. So they know you might yourself accuse them of brutalizing your victimizer.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by heavyset_go on Saturday June 04, 2022 @02:51AM (#31617709)
Musk called the hero that helped save children's lives a pedophile on three separate occasions in front of his audience of millions. This wasn't a one-time mistake, it was a deliberate public smear campaign against the man.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by dragon-hn on Friday June 03, 2022 @06:24PM (#31614433)
Respectfully, what in the world are you talking about?
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by daniel-cussen on Friday June 03, 2022 @07:20PM (#31615013)
Elon Musk spoke in public. I interceded in crimes. Police fight crime.

“It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

-- Theodore Roosevelt

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by Broken_Hippo on Saturday June 04, 2022 @07:48AM (#31619249)
Like you're in any position to chide me?

Obviously.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by res0nat0r on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:05PM (#31610222)
Also the 20% drop of $TSLA since he announced his idiotic bid for Twitter and the potential fallout from that I'm sure is related.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by belter on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:34AM (#31608860)
Slimy tactics?

From the person that said one of his companies can fix Spinal and Brain injuries?: https://youtu.be/cgyFL5Hzy-s?t=1312

Surely...

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by dharmaturtle on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:01AM (#31609246)
Meh. The youtuber criticizes Musk's statement "This is something we could fix" by saying "He does not say 'This is something we _might_ be able to fix.'"

Seconds later, the youtuber goes on to criticize Musk's disclaimer of "I'm not saying this is going to solve everything... it's something that _might_ be helpful."

You just can't win with these "skeptics".

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by haspok on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:09AM (#31609352)
Another golden Musk gem: "I am very confident that...".

The guy doesn't say anything, yet he makes everyone believe he did. Genius. The best salesperson in the world for sure.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by belter on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:29PM (#31610514)
You missed the part where Elon Musk says it will take a few years before then can do a "brain memory upload".

So they will be content of spending the first decade "just" fixing spine and brain injuries: https://youtu.be/cgyFL5Hzy-s?t=1116

Then Elon Musk says he will solve Schizophrenia, Depression and Morbid Obesity: https://youtu.be/cgyFL5Hzy-s?t=1137

Yes,...really what is with the skeptics? Can't the recognize a genius when they see one?

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by dharmaturtle on Friday June 03, 2022 @01:48PM (#31611494)
Oh god I demonstrate how the timestamped quote is incorrect and now I've attracted the attention of the Musk anti-fans.

Let me be clear: Musk is human. He has positive and negative qualities. His Thailand pedo comments were, to put it bluntly, fucking retarded. His autopilot timeline was wildly optimistic. His behavior on Twitter is infantile.

And yet this is not carte blanche to twist his words into something unrecognizable. You can't just criticize someone for not being nuanced, then criticize their disclaimer that happens seconds later. That's intellectually dishonest. At that point I stopped listening because it is clear (to me) that the youtuber has an agenda to push.

As to your comments, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Is it incorrect to believe that brain implants may lead to solutions to these problems?

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by belter on Friday June 03, 2022 @01:56PM (#31611597)
Guy says he will provide a brain implant to upload human memories to a computer and says he CAN fix a whole range of brain and spine damage, plus diseases that are not even caused by brain injury, and you focus on the disclaimer that will not be "right away"?
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by dharmaturtle on Friday June 03, 2022 @03:59PM (#31612931)
You continue to not say anything concrete.

Lots of technologists speak about the potential of technology/industry/science. Roasting Musk for dreaming big is the best you can come up with? Especially given the other material he gives you?

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by daenz on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:22AM (#31609549)
The BI story thing is only a slimy tactic if you assume the sexual assault accusation to be true. If Elon knows its false and a tactic to paint him in a specific light, how could he be blamed for getting out in front of the narrative? Should he just let people say reputationally-damaging things about him, without intervening in any way?

I think we've seen recently with the Amber Heard case that it's better to let these things shake out in court first.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by ethanbond on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:26AM (#31609623)
Strongly disagree. I'm completely ambivalent as to whether the accusation is true or not – I have literally no idea and probably never will. Elon didn't come out and say, "hey there are accusations coming about an issue that was settled long ago outside of court, I maintain position X."

He said, "I am switching to the Republican party, expect political hit pieces."

He has turned his legal issue into a Republican vs Democrat issue. That's slimy regardless of the veracity of the allegations.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by FireBeyond on Friday June 03, 2022 @01:11PM (#31610987)
He didn't even switch.

For years, he's donated to both political parties (as most of the ultra rich do). But for years, for every million dollars he's donated to the GOP, he's only donated just over 100,000 to the Democrats.

The only thing "liberal" about Musk is his attitude to weed (well, for himself, not his employees). Anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-trans, etc., etc.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by daenz on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:29AM (#31609675)
Again, in order to think it's slimy, you have to make assumptions about what is true. In the instance you just described, you still have to assume that the "hit piece" isn't because he was starting to lean more Republican. I don't think we know why the accusation re-surfaced, do we?
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by plorkyeran on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:00PM (#31610139)
The claim that he was a Democrat but is now starting to lean more Republican is itself a blatant lie based on his historical political donations.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by daenz on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:07PM (#31610247)
Sometimes people support the candidate that happens to protect their interests more, and the color of their party doesn't really mean a lot.

Am I imagining that Trump and Elon were portrayed in the media as having a good relationship? Wouldn't you consider that leaning more Republican, especially considering Trump's radioactivity?

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by FireBeyond on Friday June 03, 2022 @01:14PM (#31611018)
Musk is openly anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-worker protection, anti-trans. Not remotely liberal.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by WoahNoun on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:42AM (#31609838)
Most people don't change their political ideology based on sexual assault accusations. Even if they were false, why would that cause someone to join a party with a radically different view of society than their previous party?
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by jacquesm on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:00PM (#31610143)
The best explanation that I've seen so far is that he was a Democrat only because it boosted Tesla's sales.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by FireBeyond on Friday June 03, 2022 @01:13PM (#31611012)
He's been massively donating more to the GOP than the Democrats since before Trump. About the only thing that espouses a liberal viewpoint is his view on legalization of weed (but don't smoke it if you work for his companies, unless you're him).
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by daenz on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:47AM (#31609918)
>Most people don't change their political ideology based on sexual assault accusations

That's not the ordering of events I'm suggesting. People have commented over time how Elon has been "moving right" for some time now. I'm suggesting it's possible that the accusation re-surfaced in response to how his political alignment shifting overall. Him saying he's "switching parties" is a soundbite for the last 5 years of his politics.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by abnry on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:01PM (#31610147)
The problem is that media organizations _do_ write hit pieces for political/agenda-driven reasons.

A certain side of the political aside has been unhappy about Musk trying to acquire Twitter. We've already seen how the media treats the views of this group of people. A certain supreme court nominee hearing comes to mind. It really, really isn't a stretch to think they'd attempt similar things to Musk.

That is, if the allegation is actually false. If it is true, it is another matter. Musk isn't as pure as the wind-driven snow. But these sorts of things have to be based on evidence. The actual story was second hand information and the fact of a settlement doesn't prove guilt.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by flutas on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:55AM (#31609154)
> I think we can assume pretty slimy tactics from Musk.

I personally think we can assume slimy tactics from everyone involved.

Did Musk do what he was accused of? Knowing his attitude most likely.

Did someone also have very large shorts opened on Tesla right before the story dropped, to expire a day later? Yep.

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/152743945535046860...

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by lupire on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:06AM (#31609314)
Not everyone, but yes a convicted securities fraudster (Henry Blodget) runs a news site that has now published two sexual harassment stories about two different companies, on two different dates (respectively), that both had unusually large shorts expiring.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by numair on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:24AM (#31609568)
The Elon / TSLA fanboys need to update their conspiracy theory. Blodget doesn’t even own BI, which everyone knows.

I think Elon himself helped to spread this conspiracy, when he would be fully aware it’s complete BS. This demonstrates to me that he is willing to engage in the dangerous game of pushing fake news on his blind followers to get them to go after his enemies, even if it makes no sense. These are the exact sort of people who should not have any power, because they’ll happily abuse it to cause societal harm.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/29/axel-springer-...

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by flutas on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:20PM (#31610421)
> Blodget doesn’t even own BI

Nobody I saw claimed he owns BI. He's a cofounder and the current CEO though and therefore does run BI. Just had to call you out on that for spreading a falsehood by trying to twist someone else's words while trying to make a claim about "fake news".

But I also never said it was him either, someone else did. I have no clue who it is and don't even want to get into a guessing game of it. It could be Elon himself for all we know. I was just pointing out that someone knew and opened the short.

Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by numair on Friday June 03, 2022 @12:27PM (#31610492)
Blodget kept the title but Axel Springer ultimately determines what does or doesn’t happen. If you think Blodget is abusing his position to further a personal vendetta or short-selling agenda, you should contact Axel Springer and blow the whistle!
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by FireBeyond on Friday June 03, 2022 @01:16PM (#31611054)
Naked short selling is farcical. But short positions are perfectly valid and the "oh the shorts, the shorts!" martyrdom is tired. People are allowed to think your company is overvalued.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by throwawaybobby on Friday June 03, 2022 @10:59AM (#31609213)
That someone could be him, since he knew the story was going to break and tank the stock.
Re:Tesla to Cut 10% of Jobs by lupire on Friday June 03, 2022 @11:07AM (#31609321)
This has happened at least twice, and the first time didn't involve Elon/Tesla, but did also involve Business Insider.