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Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by robonerd on Thursday June 02, 2022 @01:08PM (#31597620)
> Who is a scumbag?

There are marginal cases for sure, but let's not pretend that true scumbags don't exist just because the demarcation line is subjective; that's like pretending there's no such thing as a ripe banana because the green fades gradually into yellow with no clear line between them. Look beyond the marginal cases and it becomes clear that the difference really does exist. There are people in this country with numerous DUIs and domestic violence convictions, obviously such people are scumbags.

Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by ameister14 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @02:27PM (#31598708)
I think people with numerous DUIs are just as likely to have a serious disease as have some moral failing resulting in them being a 'scumbag.' To me, choice is a major differentiator rather than 'obviously this person has a history of x actions' in the abstract.
Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by robonerd on Thursday June 02, 2022 @03:06PM (#31599228)
And maybe the wife beater is fucked in the head because he got brain damage as a kid from his dad beating him. I don't really care though, I don't have a problem classifying him as a scumbag. Cycles of abuse can be broken, and addictions can be kicked (and usually, avoided in the first place. Unlike getting beaten by your dad.)
Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by ameister14 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @03:23PM (#31599407)
Yeah, if the person is intellectually disabled and that disability causes them to act in a certain way then I don't really consider them a scumbag either. Their parents, maybe, or whoever is supposed to be supervising them.

Look, if you're a person who enjoys harming others, is incredibly lazy and chooses theft or destruction over actively working in your community when you have the opportunity to do so then you're more of a scumbag in my book.

Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by robonerd on Thursday June 02, 2022 @03:37PM (#31599566)
> Yeah, if the person is intellectually disabled and that disability causes them to act in a certain way then I don't really consider them a scumbag either.

That's easy to claim online talking about abstract scenarios, but if you saw a man beat his wife in public I think you'd be more than willing to make a snap judgement about that man's moral character, and wouldn't stop to think "well maybe he's not a scumbag because..."

Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by ameister14 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @04:14PM (#31599964)
Sure, I don't disagree. I snap to judgment more often than I'd like to.
Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by daenz on Thursday June 02, 2022 @02:42PM (#31598919)
Are you making the case that a person with numerous DUIs doesn't have a choice in the decision to drive drunk, and therefore isn't a scumbag?
Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by ameister14 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @02:50PM (#31599019)
Pretty much, yeah. I'm acknowledging that it is possible the person with numerous DUIs is an alcoholic and that, once drunk, the intent necessary for a knowing crime is no longer really there. The logic of 'chose to get drunk so chose the consequences' doesn't work if the person has a disease causing them to continuously drink.
Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by devmor on Thursday June 02, 2022 @03:25PM (#31599425)
Recognizing the root cause doesn't remove choice or blame. If we follow your logic consistently, then none of us are ultimately responsible for anything we do because of determinism.

Things like that should only really be a factor in choosing sentencing and rehabilitation.

Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by ameister14 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @03:34PM (#31599525)
>Recognizing the root cause doesn't remove choice or blame.

That's not my logic.

If you have a disease that causes an involuntary action, that removes choice.

I could extend that - the more something slides towards coercion, the less choice there is. Rather than a complete removal, a person's punishment should be evaluated in light of the circumstances in which they act.

>Things like that should only really be a factor in choosing sentencing and rehabilitation.

That's kinda what I'm talking about - a sentence of being known as a scumbag.

Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by daenz on Thursday June 02, 2022 @02:55PM (#31599078)
Do you think being an alcoholic is a valid defense if you murder someone while drunk?
Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by ameister14 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @03:21PM (#31599374)
Unlikely - it's definitely something you can raise in an argument about intent to get drunk and that lack of intent impacting the nature of mens rea, so it might be a mitigating factor, but either way it isn't a complete defense so you're kinda starting at negligent homicide.

The difference, of course, is I'm not actually talking about what you did, I'm talking about what makes you a scumbag. I don't think people can really be unintentional scumbags - intent is required.

Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by encryptluks2 on Thursday June 02, 2022 @01:26PM (#31597885)
Speaking of domestic violence, want to post some statistics on the amount of cops that are domestic abusers? Or the ones caught drunk behind the wheel and get let off.
Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by vorpalhex on Thursday June 02, 2022 @01:31PM (#31597965)
Why not post the amount of cats that are orange or scarecrows in overalls? What does the rate of cops being DV cases have to do with this comment?
Re:In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Ube... by at_a_remove on Thursday June 02, 2022 @01:36PM (#31598046)
What a derail! And one that in no way remedies the stated problem.