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Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by martythemaniak on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:13PM (#3151613)
Honestly curious, where did those users go? Back to $40 shitcable? Torrenting?
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by goodweeds on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:30PM (#3151690)
I'm willing to bet that a lot of those users, like myself, said "I've had these same 2 dvds for the past year. The streaming selection pretty much sucks and I end up watching B-movies when I'm bored because nothing I want to watch, and haven't seen before, is in their library. I should send these 2 dvds back and cancel".

I've long switched to itunes or Amazon when I want to watch movies because they tend to have the movie I want, when I want it, and I can download the whole movie before watching, thus not having to deal with netflix's lag-burdend craptastic streaming service.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by JohnTHaller on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:35PM (#3151717)
Of course, you don't really 'own' the movies through iTunes or Amazon either. And Netflix's stream servers have plenty of bandwidth to serve up. I use it daily without issue and HD programs, so it's not the servers. More likely, it you're internet connection or their overburdened peer connection to Netflix's peer. Either way, not something really in their control. As most internet service is getting more unreliable (instead of less), this isn't that surprising.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by goodweeds on Monday October 24, 2011 @06:24PM (#3151907)
I thought of that, and pretty thoroughly ruled it out both by testing on my super-spiffy badass link (100mbps synchronous over microwave ala webpass.com) and my girlfriend's spiffy 8mbps adsl2+ link through Sonic, neither of whom have a reputation packet-mangling like comcast.

Being a network-geek, and having been really bored one weekend, I took my macbook pro, and my girlfriend's macbook air (both of which have this problem) to a cage at equinix that I'd built out for a customer a few years ago. That network is equipped with a pair of cisco 6509's with sup2-msfc2s (old gear, but perfectly adequate for the task at hand). Each router has 3x 1gb uplinks to different providers (internap, time warner, and level3) running BGP. All of three ISP's peer directly with Netflix's AS. The problems persisted whether I was behind my routing, or statically routing by grabbing an IP on the /29 stub network each provider gives me to establish the bgp connection).

I tested both from behind my routing, and for fun, from my testing subnets (the stub networks) which statically route through their respective uplinks. Plenty of bandwidth, no mid-level ISP to insert QoS wankery. Same problems.

As for owning the movie, did that even come up in my previous comment? If so, then forgive me, it's not something I care about. In the rare instance (3-4x per month) where I want to watch a movie, I just want it to work. I don't want it to pause every few minutes to see a "buffering" screen. That's three steps backwards.

The commonality between both laptops is that they run os x( one on snow leopard, one on lion). I suspect silverlight is the real culprit, but I don't care. The solution would be to allow customers to buffer large chunks of the movie (20-30%) or download the whole movie before playing. Instead Netflix (probably due to being hamstrung by their agreements with content providers) tries to be too clever with variable bit-rate encoding and ruins the viewing experience. (even one pause is unacceptable in my book, let alone the 5-10 I often had per movie).

Whenever I discuss this with others, some people have similar quality problems, some people claim it works perfectly making me wonder if it's platform specific. Out of curiosity, are you running Mac, Windows, or Linux?

Also, the silverlight client has ridiculously bad volume control, I never quite understood why that is.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by hollerith on Monday October 24, 2011 @06:46PM (#3151968)
I suspect silverlight on os x is the culprit, too, because by clicking in the Netflix window I can usually get a spinning beach ball to appear when the video is frozen or stuttering. I recall Netflix working a lot better on my Macbook 6 months ago. (video playback in Flash in contrast has improved in that time.)
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by hollerith on Monday October 24, 2011 @09:19PM (#3152361)
Netflix Instant works fine on my friend's iPad 2 though.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by grourk on Monday October 24, 2011 @11:15PM (#3152677)
Netflix works a treat with my webpass connection on my ps3. Never stops or stutters.

That said, I'll probably cancel because there's nothing I want to watch anymore.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by Klinky on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:48PM (#3151769)
No where did he mention concerns about owning a movie. I personally can really only stand to watch a movie once, I don't really care to own a movie.

As for his internet connection, that probably should be Netflix's concern. Most people aren't going to go through the hassle of changing their ISP for Netflix & it would be rather silly to expect him to continue paying for a service that doesn't work with his ISP or his viewing habits.

Netflix needs to be more aggressive with ISPs & content providers. They've seemingly rolled over time & again to ISPs & content producers while irritating their customer base.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by wx77 on Monday October 24, 2011 @06:07PM (#3151842)
I have a bad internet connection (1.5 Mbit) and found that without using the whole connection I wasn't able to stream netflix and was still burdened with artifacts and terrible quality. Now to put this in perspective at a little over half my connection speed (~.8Mbit maybe it is less) amazon streaming works perfectly with decent enough quality and no stops to buffer or recheck my internet speeds.

So maybe I'm in the minority or maybe I'm not but I dropped netflix streaming and probably won't be going back unless cable or fiber internet comes to my area.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by bittermang on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:19PM (#3151641)
In my case, I simply went without.

Contrary to the way people seem to act, entertainment is neither a right, or a requirement. I get by just fine without movies or television shows.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by megablast on Monday October 24, 2011 @07:57PM (#3152150)
Fair enough, but you could tell us what you do that you didn't used to.

I ride more, play board games, and read more.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by wiredfool on Monday October 24, 2011 @07:09PM (#3152032)
I'm one of the 800k.

Essentially, I figured out that it was costing me $16/movie I watched, and that was before the price hike. So I cut it out, and given that I was watching on average, a movie every 2 months, I haven't noticed the difference. (and what's more, that's an average, and there was much more activity in a couple of bursts early one.)

Their big error for me was reminding me of the relationship between the monthly billing and how much I got out of it.

FWIW, this is the second time I've cancelled netflix. They'll probably get a third chance, if I ever feel like watching movies again.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by singer on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:22PM (#3151658)
If they are like me, they didn't use Netflix much and it just became an unnecessary expense. For those who use Netflix on a daily basis, I think the new price is still fair.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by baddox on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:41PM (#3151745)
I'm guessing that's most of it: people with disposable income that were paying but not using, simply because they never bothered to cancel. All the news about the price hikes brought the small monthly expense to the attention of these people, and even though most could afford the higher price, it was just the nudge they needed to cancel a service they rarely use.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by paul9290 on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:30PM (#3151688)
The B-grade content they started to put front and center lost me.

I just use hulu.com and other similar sites; Mac Mini connected to my TV.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by theoj on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:41PM (#3151747)
Agree, it does feel like there is a lot of B-grade stuff on Netflix streaming.

Paradoxically, the unlimited movie buffet might be their undoing. There is a limited number of movies that are truly excellent and worth watching. Once you go through those good ones, you're left with the crap. Having unlimited watching quickly moves you from the good stuff to the crap, and then you cancel your subscription. Neflix faces a scarcity disconnect: its unlimited model says there is no scarcity but out in the real world good movies are still scarce.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by chadgeidel on Monday October 24, 2011 @08:00PM (#3152158)
I personally am amazed that people's queue is not constantly full. Right now I have 178 disks in my "DVD" queue and 87 titles in my "Instant" queue (including series which take one slot).

Maybe there's a ton of stuff that I don't "need" to watch, but I can always find something interesting. I really don't consider myself a huge movie lover either.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by frek818 on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @12:01AM (#3152764)
Hard to believe you have that many movies in your Instant Queue. Is this Reed Hasting? I admit that I find a unpopular movie that I enjoy sometimes. But I mostly sit through 5 boring unpopular movies before I find a gem.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by chadgeidel on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @10:27AM (#3154150)
LOL - no I'm not Reed Hasting. I just throw stuff in there that I hear is good. I don't watch everything all the way through if it's not.

I watch about 2-3 movies and 2 TV shows a week though so it does take me a while to get through my queue.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by mcherm on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @07:47AM (#3153712)
Over the weekend I watched Time Bandits with my 8 year old. How can you beat that?
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by JohnTHaller on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:36PM (#3151723)
You kind of have to do that to make Hulu and similar sites actually work in the living room due to the ridiculous licensing restrictions on a lot of their content disallowing phone/Xbox/360/Wii/set top box usage.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by paul9290 on Monday October 24, 2011 @06:04PM (#3151828)
Yes with a Mac Mini connected to a LCD TV you have a ton more choices(hulu, cbsnews.com/video, tv.com & others).

It's not the same user experience as a TV, but for me it's better. It allows me to watch/listen to shows/movies in one tab while reading articles, instant messaging friends & other things within other tabs.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by naner on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:38PM (#3151730)
Honestly curious, where did those users go? Back to $40 shitcable?

RedBox for Blu-Ray.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by uptown on Monday October 24, 2011 @09:52PM (#3152422)
We rent movies on-demand via either Amazon (streamed through my TiVo) or via AppleTV. It gives us access to stream new movies with a pay-as-you-go pricing structure which is more in-line with how many movies we watch (probably one a month, if that). For us, Netflix was never a replacement for cable because there's still enough live content on cable we wouldn't get via Netflix, or without having to jump through hoops to easily get onto a television.

Netflix made the catastrophic mistake of reminding their customers how much they were paying for their service at the exact time new content was back on television ... then did it again a couple weeks later. They couldn't have executed any worse IMO.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by kellishaver on Monday October 24, 2011 @10:08PM (#3152482)
I've done a few things after cancelling Netflix.

In my case, it was so rare that I got DVDs that it wasn't worth the cost of continuing that. I've just dropped rented DVDs from my viewing all together (though there's also a Redbox that I go by every single day so that's an option).

As for streaming, most of what I want to watch I can also get for free via Amazon Instant with my Amazon Prime account, which I would be paying for anyway and the occasional movie or show that isn't included free evens out to no more than I was paying for Netflix.

I also realized that I would watch a lot of TV shows on Netflix and then buy them on DVD/blu-ray at a later date, so I just buy the DVDs/blu-rays, which requires a little more patience (box sets are expensive so I don't buy them everyday) but it turns out that waiting a month or two has no significant impact on my life. ;)

Shows that are currently airing, some documentaries, kids movies, etc. we watch on Hulu for free. They only offer the last 5 episodes of the season on the free account, but if you don't get behind, that's all you need.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by suivix on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @01:57AM (#3153018)
I don't understand why you'd buy DVDs and Blu-rays knowing they will soon be obsolete?
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by kellishaver on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @06:41PM (#3156215)
I think "soon" is a bit overly optimistic. DVDs are on the way out, yes (though a lot of TV shows are still only available on DVD), but I really don't see blu-ray going anywhere for a while.

Besides, I like having the physical media, even though it's not the most efficient, and I don't think I'm alone in that. I think it probably appeals to a lot of consumers.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter if they become obsolete in a year. The ones I've purchased aren't going to suddenly stop working because the technology has moved on and the players will be around for a long while for this reason. Heck, you can still buy a VCR for about $40 and VHS tapes have a much shorter life than a CD. When the players start getting hard to find or too expensive, it will be a simple matter to transfer the contents of said disks to a hard drive.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by tomkarlo on Monday October 24, 2011 @06:47PM (#3151971)
You're assuming they were cable-cutters, which is common around here but still uncommon in the wider market. More likely, they had both cable and Netflix (maybe were testing the waters) and when the price change hit, they dropped the Netflix and stuck with cable.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by mdasen on Monday October 24, 2011 @07:55PM (#3152142)
I have both Redbox and those Blockbuster kiosks on my way to and from work (during the part I walk) and so I can get a $1 DVD when I want rather than managing when something will arrive.

I can get a lot from my library. While I don't get to always choose the timing for inter-library loans, I can get a season of television for two weeks at a time. With Netflix, I just get individual DVDs.

Some of the things I want to watch are already online for streaming like South Park. There's a lot of content on Hulu as well and network sites can be overlooked as sources of content.

I think the price hike made a lot of people think about how they used Netflix. When it was a combined service, people thought "oh, I'm getting this interesting combined service" and ended there. Now people are seeing $16/mo for 3-DVDs at a time and wondering. In order to get to the $1/DVD level, you'd have to get 4 per week. I think a lot of people didn't have that high a velocity of DVDs. You get one shipped to you on monday, it arrives tuesday, I find that there's usually at least 2-3 days of it being at my house between finding the time to watch it and forgetting it in the morning, it gets into the post on thursday or friday, gets to Netflix friday or saturday, and basically you've got a week turn-around time. And if you're getting multiple out at a time, it's hard to watch that much content - and watch it consistently month-to-month. Likewise, I think that people ran through a lot of the streaming content. I also think that the on-demand streaming just doesn't allow me to find things well. It keeps showing me the stuff I've already seen and things it thinks I'm going to rate as 2-3 stars. I understand that Netflix went to this less-search, more-browsing interface because their streaming catalogue isn't complete, but it keeps showing me things I don't want to watch and on rare occasions I've had friends tell me about things I didn't know were on there.

So, I think people have been taking stock of Netflix. Netflix raised their prices a mere 9 months prior on them and then again. 3 DVDs plus streaming went from $17 to $20 at the start of 2011 and then from $20 to $24 at the end of summer 2011. For me, there's a genuine feeling that these price increases might continue. I mean, if Netflix goes up another 40% over the next year, that's getting pretty close to "$40 shitcable". Likewise, I surveyed my other options and found them better. I can get a whole season of TV at a time from my library for two weeks. No worrying about how quickly I get disks back into the mail or being annoyed by not having the next disk. New releases I can get from kiosks the night I want them and drop them off on my way to work the next morning and only pay $1. A decent amount of programming is streamable online. Maybe that isn't for you. It's working nicely for me.

I have no hard feelings for Netflix, but I find this works better for me while being cheaper. Their streaming collection held my interest for a while and then began seeming like the re-runs of shows in the 6-8pm time slot - sure, they could be good shows, but they weren't necessarily what you were looking for. For me, Netflix solved the problem of rental stores charging me $5 for a DVD. For basically that price, I could get 3-DVDs at a time. Now I'm finding that I can get a $1 DVD from a kiosk (and can often get coupons for those machines) and grab it when I want on my way home. My library can provide me with deeper selection and it costs me nothing (I have to pay the taxes whether I use it or not) and I don't feel as on-the-clock as I do with Netflix. If I return one I didn't watch, well, I can get it again some other time and haven't lost anything - which isn't the feeling I get from Netflix.

I'm not saying they're a bad service or it shouldn't work for you. I just think there's increase competition from cheap, kiosk-based rentals and that people have been taking stock of how they use their Netflix and finding it a bit lacking. I mean, if you've kept the same DVDs home for a month and haven't watched them, that isn't Netflix's fault, but it does mean that you aren't enjoying a lot of value there. A price increase simply brings that to your attention and makes you think about eliminating it from your expenses.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by padobson on Monday October 24, 2011 @08:40PM (#3152246)
+1. Why can't the figure out a pricing point? Shouldn't the marginal cost per user be going down as they scale? What's wrong with their infrastructure that it's going up? Or are they just trying to price it for demand? That doesn't make much sense to me if they're pricing away customers in the middle of the growth stage.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by shinratdr on Monday October 24, 2011 @09:53PM (#3152423)
Netflix doesn't have fixed costs. As they become more popular, licensing becomes more and more expensive and it becomes easier and easier for content owners to jerk them around for their own benefit.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by padobson on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @07:06AM (#3153617)
But don't content costs scale on a linear trajectory? Cable companies pay $x/subscriber for a channel - each additional customer doesn't add to some cost multiplier and profit goes up with revenue and cost of content.

Is Netflix so at the whims of content providers that their model is so much different? It seems like a completely broken business if they can't find scalable ways to make their content providers money.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by shinratdr on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @04:08PM (#3155663)
> But don't content costs scale on a linear trajectory? Cable companies pay $x/subscriber for a channel - each additional customer doesn't add to some cost multiplier and profit goes up with revenue and cost of content.

Netflix doesn't do that, though. There are no channels to speak of, so there is no middleman to negotiate with, there is only the content providers who see you as small peanuts when you're little and a looming, direct threat when you're big.

The way Netflix deals work (at least from what we can gather from public articles about the subject) is that Netflix pays a fixed cost for x streams of y content from z provider, with a time expiry for the overall deal. Once the collective user base has used up that streaming bucket or the time has expired, Netflix has to re-negotiate to fill it again.

In other words, in 2005 when Netflix only has 500k subscribers and online video is impossible to monitize, handing them a multi year exclusive deal with a 5 million streams for $100 million (pulling these numbers directly out of my ass, just to be clear) is no big deal, you just made $100 million on something that was formerly worthless, good for you.

However now it's the year 2011 when advertisers are paying better money for online ads, online viewing is exploding and eating into your traditional sources of revenue, and Netflix is riding their 2005-era deal all the way to the bank. Now letting them get away with that deal is viewed as tantamount to content theft in the eyes of the providers. Suddenly to secure the same deal you got for $100m, will now cost you $500m. Multiply that by every content provider in the industry, and you can plainly see why Netflix is stuck between a rock and a hard place right now.

Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by suivix on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @01:54AM (#3153010)
They're trying to push people towards streaming which is the future by making DVDs more expensive.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by phallstrom on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:27PM (#3151674)
We had the 1 dvd at a time (+ blu ray option). So, for us the price jump was close to double. Our last DVD sat on the shelf for 3 months before we got to it. But we watch streaming a lot. So we canceled the DVD option and figure that $8-9/mo we'll use at the redbox near us if there's something recent we want to watch. That's more movies than we can watch anyway (or that we can get via netflix with the mail delay)... I'm sure a lot of the 800,000 were like us.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by sixtofour on Monday October 24, 2011 @06:26PM (#3151914)
I went to the library.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by rokhayakebe on Monday October 24, 2011 @08:54PM (#3152282)
I guess 1channel.ch. I watch on average one movie per day and I can tell you those Putlocker links work just as well as DVDs.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by kin on Monday October 24, 2011 @06:12PM (#3151859)
They upped their device count to a whopping 50. A lot of those users (myself included) are simply sharing accounts.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by skeeterbug on Tuesday October 25, 2011 @01:16AM (#3152913)
I went back to Directv. I was already missing sports, so this move pushed me back in that direction.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by zzzeek on Monday October 24, 2011 @06:31PM (#3151932)
they can download from itunes, amazon and blockbuster via their tivo, etc. netflix never had a decent selection of titles available for download, somehow AMZN does much better.
Re:Netflix loses 800,000 subscribers (stock drops 28%) by fmota on Monday October 24, 2011 @05:59PM (#3151807)
YouTube for me. Although I would have continued to stream Netflix if that was an option.