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Re:Hacking the bureaucracy to get stuff done (2020) by notch656a on Monday May 23, 2022 @06:07PM (#31485401)
You might want to speak with the slightest shred of factual basis before you embarrass yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_convicted_of...

>Volkswagen AG (VW) has agreed to plead guilty to three criminal felony counts

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/volkswagen-ag-agrees-plead-gu...

>A four-count felony criminal information was filed today in federal court in the Eastern District of New York charging HSBC with willfully failing to maintain an effective anti-money laundering (AML) program,

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/bae-systems-plc-pleads-guilty...

>Q. Can a corporation be held criminally liable in the same way as an individual can be held liable?

>A. Yes. A corporation can be prosecuted for essentially all of the same crimes as individuals and, if proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, convicted of felonies and misdemeanors.

https://www.mololamken.com/assets/htmldocuments/FAQs%20-%20C...

In quite a few criminal cases, but not all, the company was charged without any individual being held criminally liable.

Re:Hacking the bureaucracy to get stuff done (2020) by lazide on Monday May 23, 2022 @10:54PM (#31487510)
I think their point is 'and then what happened'. You can't put a company in jail, and no one uses the corporate death penalty anymore it seems. PG&E got criminally convicted, and they just got a fine like they usually do.
Re:Hacking the bureaucracy to get stuff done (2020) by notch656a on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @03:33PM (#31496563)
Which brings me back to:

>If there is no company then why don't individuals become felons when a company is convicted of a felony?

Re:Hacking the bureaucracy to get stuff done (2020) by lazide on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @04:43PM (#31497340)
It is possible for many people to commit individual acts that when done alone are not a felony, but when combined as part of an organization are.

Convicting a mid-level manager of murder because he turned a valve on, when they to the best of their knowledge, had no idea it would result in 100 people dying in a fire would also not be justice - at least if the necessary records got lost by some lower level functionary somewhere else, and it never got fixed because an exec somewhere was prioritizing some other work elsewhere without having the records of how bad it was.

PG&E has 26,000 employees. Even with as screwed up as it is, the problem is the organization itself. Putting all 26k people in jail doesn't solve the problem either.

Re:Hacking the bureaucracy to get stuff done (2020) by notch656a on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @07:11PM (#31498641)
But then that breaks OP's model of "there is no company."