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Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by ekianjo on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:29AM (#31467975)
> I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck?

Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning.

Wearing a helmet can itself become a leading factor to cause an incident, and it's clearly what they are hinting at in the linked article: that data seems to indicate that riders wearing helmets may be getting more incidents on average. Then it's a simple equation: number of incidents x gravity of the incident in both A/B scenarios, and compare which one is the most favorable. It's not a question you answer with a "what the actual fuck" kind of reasoning.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by arjvik on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:35AM (#31468030)
Correlation vs causation much?

In order to show that helmets *cause* accidents, they need to create a randomized study where they force employees to flip a coin to decide whether to wear a helmet or not.

Otherwise, here's one plausible scenario: Employees who work in tiny suburbs with small roads and very little traffic feel safer, and this are less likely to wear a helmet. They get in less crashes because their town has fewer and safer drivers. Employees working in the city have more crashes simply because of being in a busy city, so they are more likely to wear helmets.

Right now, you cannot prove that helmets cause crashes and not the above.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by indymike on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:39AM (#31468073)
I can prove that helmets reduce head injuries both in quantity and severity.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by xdennis on Sunday May 22, 2022 @05:02PM (#31472746)
You can do so in lab environments, not in real world situations.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by shkkmo on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:03AM (#31468281)
You have the exact same causal issue to untangle. Do safer riders wear helmets or does wear a helmet make you safer as a rider?

In reality there are confounds both directions. The effects of helmet wearing are higly contingent based on the geography and demographics.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by mcherm on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:13AM (#31468373)
Yes, but it IS possible to do research that untangles these effects.

Here is a review (from just 3 years ago) of such studies:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136984781...

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by shkkmo on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:56AM (#31468875)
I have some issues with that study. One major one is they basically rule out half the effects of helmets as a "logical fallacy":

> Risk compensation, as it is typically defined and understood, is only one of six possible scenarios, namely a usual non-helmet wearer puts on a helmet and increases their risk taking. Importantly, evidence in the opposite direction, i.e., taking a helmet off leads to less risky behaviour, is not evidence in support of risk compensation as it is a type of logical fallacy

After reviewing that article none of the studies are convincing either way. The only studies that actually look for causality are the ones which only measure speed to asses risk. Those are also the one that I would qualify as positive results but were listed as negative results because of that above mentioned logical fallacy.

So while is is possible to untangle these effects, it has yet to be done properly to show a clear result either way.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by indymike on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:11PM (#31469675)
No, I really don't untangle anything. Safer riders ride safer, but they can and do sometimes have accidents and the road will not check your safety record before impact to see if it should hurt your more or less.

Research on helmets has been ongoing for 40 years, and has even led to ANSI standards for helmet design and protection. The UCI requires hemets in amateur and professional events. This isn't about risk taking behavior, it is simply about if you do have an accident, you won't be killed, turned into a vegetable or concussed when you hit your head.

> The effects of helmet wearing are higly contingent based on the geography and demographics.

I'm pretty sure that hitting your head on Ugandan cement will damage your head roughly the same as American Cement or European cement. S

Additionally, I've never seen any research showing any kind of demographic relationship to severity of head injuries in bicycle accidents. Nor have I once saw research that did anything other than present some statistical noise about distance cars give you based on helmet or not. Close shaves are not accidents or injuries, so even the basis of the research is questionable.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by shkkmo on Sunday May 22, 2022 @01:02PM (#31470321)
> Additionally, I've never seen any research showing any kind of demographic relationship to severity of head injuries in bicycle accidents.

The effects of a helmet on overall safety when ridden at low speed on dedicated bike paths is very different from when ridden at high speeds in traffic with no bike lane.

Thus the the design of the city and streets (geography is perhaps not the perfect term for this) and the what/how of the local culture's bike riding behavior (perhaps demographics is a bad term for this, not sure of a better one.) have huge impacts on how much a helmet affects your safety simply because the risk profiles are very different.

The data is messy due to regional variability plus the difficulty of reliably removing the confounds mentioned above. I would never discourage someone from wearing and will actively encourage it when riding in bicycle hostile areas. At the same time, I think the push for helmet laws and helmet education is often a cop out to avoid talking about how we need to redesign cities to support safe bicycling. If we did the later, we would see much larger safety gains and the former would be much less necessary.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by tragictrash on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:24AM (#31468493)
The devil doesn't need an advocate, please stop.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by moralestapia on Sunday May 22, 2022 @04:22PM (#31472342)
>Correlation vs causation much?

Oh I'm so tired of this meme!

Plenty of times causation is found through correlation. Plenty. Of. Times.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by treesprite82 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:49AM (#31468165)
> Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not?

Cars already have airbags and seatbelts which help a lot for the kind of collisions that would otherwise result in head injuries.

> It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning.

I don't see what in their comment could be construed to say that helmets make you much safer regardless of vehicle.

> Wearing a helmet can itself become a leading factor to cause an incident

Is there a source for this? Should be a randomized A/B test as you mentioned, not just a correlation - wearing a hi-vis jacket or other precautions taken more often in dangerous situations probably also correlate with accidents.

Even if helmets do cause accidents through increased carelessness, some may still take issue to intentionally making a scenario more dangerous such that people are more careful. It's kind of settling for a local minimum, rather than aiming to reduce inherent risk alongside aligning people's risk estimates to not overestimate the precautions.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by stefan_ on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:51AM (#31468195)
But a helmet will help even more. It costs nothing, what is there to reject?
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by treesprite82 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:04AM (#31468291)
I don't perceive the benefit from risk reduction of helmets in cars to overcome the hassle hurdle. But I wouldn't advocate banning others from wearing helmets in cars if they so wished.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by darkerside on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:29AM (#31468542)
Helmets reduce peripheral vision. I would absolutely be comfortable banning helmets in cars if people started wearing them and causing more accidents.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by allears on Sunday May 22, 2022 @11:28AM (#31469206)
My bicycle helmet sits on top of my head, and has nothing to do with peripheral vision. Do you wear yours pulled down low over your forehead? If so you're doing it wrong.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by darkerside on Sunday May 22, 2022 @11:53AM (#31469485)
The strap makes it more difficult to turn your head if it's properly tight. Probably also will hit your head on the ceiling if you're in a sedan.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by dvzk on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:09PM (#31469662)
I think you've been fitted into the wrong helmet. Do you really think MTB riders have any more difficulty turning their heads? It's not the case. And to back up what the other person said: modern road and XC/enduro MTB helmets do not obstruct peripheral vision unless it also has a non-retractable visor. Even modern full-face helmets limit vision less than you might think.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by toast0 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:44PM (#31470121)
A competent bike helmet costs little, but not nothing; maybe $20 to start, and a little extra weight, and it messes up your hair a bit, takes seconds to put on if already adjusted and maybe a minute otherwise. May remove a bit of vision, but only vertically up.

A competent car helmet is probably a motorcycle helmet, which is more like $100 to start, but it impacts hearing, reduces vision in all directions, is a significant weight, usually doesn't adjust much for sizing, takes longer to put on (especially if you wear eyeglasses).

A bike helmet in a car would likely be more trouble than anything, it would interfere with the headrests and probably increase neck injuries.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by oliwarner on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:24AM (#31468485)
No, it rightfully illicits that response. Wearing a safety device shouldn't make an activity less safe.

Your "simple equation" relies on your variables being solid. And they aren't.

It's important to stress that the behavioural studies from Bath (that show helmeted riders take more risks in simulations, that cars give them less space) are not data about whether helmeted users are at greater risk. Or that comparisons between US and NZ riders and outcomes are comparable because of vastly different road and rider profiles.

It's also hard to show how much helmets are helping because zero-harm accidents are rarely reported, so if we assume that they function correctly, and do reduce harm in impacts, we simply don't know how many near-misses there are.

You can look at hospital admission data two studies show 75 and 78% of cyclists admitted with serious-enough head/neck injuries hadn't worn a helmet. That still needs adjusting for total accidents, and proportion of helmeted riders on the road in the first place. Again, poor reporting makes this tough.

You also have to be aware that some studies and stats are polished up by people fervently for and against mandatory helmet laws. Biased reporting doesn't help anyone. There's a good selection here: https://www.helmets.org/stats.htm (domain suggests a strong bias, but I'm not sure).

Pedal Me doesn't provide a good argument here. It seems more like they're worried what their customers will think (do they need helmets too?) and nothing to do with actual safety outcomes.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by RC_ITR on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:35AM (#31468612)
> No, it rightfully illicits that response. Wearing a safety device shouldn't make an activity less safe.

American Football vs Rugby and the difference in CTE is often cited as the prime example of where this is true. Helmets and shoulder pads encourage riskier hits.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by oliwarner on Sunday May 22, 2022 @04:04PM (#31472172)
Often cited, sure, but I don't see cyclists (myself included) put a helmet on and start taking on 18-wheelers. What I'm trying to say is it matters how true these studies are. Say we accept there's an increased risk of having an accident, the data also shows that if you have an accident you're much more likely to die without a helmet.

I think a lot of people —including experienced cyclists— would be surprised how easily a silly little fall, a knock against a car, can just kill you.

So even if a helmet makes you marginally more likely to be involved in an accident, being a professional vulnerable road user, all day is no joke. I'd like to have safety equipment when my number comes up.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by davisoneee on Sunday May 22, 2022 @12:13PM (#31469705)
I don't think that example is quite so obvious.

American Football is all about set plays. You line up and then charge at each other, meaning you have two lines effectively charging at each other and can focus all your effort on this one effort.

Rugby is much more fluid, so the amount of direct head-on-head collisions is much lower, and the distance someone typically runs before tackling someone is much lower as the 'engagements' are more frequent.

American Football is like going from 0-60mph every 10 minutes, whereas rugby is about sitting at 30mph constantly.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by RC_ITR on Sunday May 22, 2022 @02:28PM (#31471234)
I don’t want to be rude, but wide receivers and running backs get CTE as much as other positions and their movement patterns are nearly identical to rugby.

I agree linemen are a novel concept, but they’re not the only victims.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by davisoneee on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:44AM (#31478953)
I was not suggesting it's only linemen. I think my point still stands about NFL being all about 'set plays'. NFL is all "set up, set up, set up, RUN, TACKLE, STOP", whereas rugby is more "run run tackle run tackle run tackle stop".

Combine that with the fact when a Rugby player makes an extended run, they aren't often tackled directly head or side-on, it's more perhaps an "anchor" tackle from the back to pull them down. In american football, the safeties and deep players have more opportunity to get head-on with a receiver while the ball is in flight, while a rugby full-back having to watch and run horizontally while the player is running means they are less likely to be directly head-on.

Further combine that with the fact that Rugby governing bodies have penalised 'high tackles', and the rate of CTE drops significalty.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by RC_ITR on Monday May 23, 2022 @08:50PM (#31486733)
>I think my point still stands about NFL being all about 'set plays'. NFL is all "set up, set up, set up, RUN, TACKLE, STOP", whereas rugby is more "run run tackle run tackle run tackle stop".

Is your core argument that rugby is safer because the players are more tired at any given point so they don't hit as hard? Other than that, I am struggling to figure out the mechanism between stopping more frequently and football being more dangerous.

>Combine that with the fact when a Rugby player makes an extended run, they aren't often tackled directly head or side-on, it's more perhaps an "anchor" tackle from the back to pull them down. In american football, the safeties and deep players have more opportunity to get head-on with a receiver while the ball is in flight, while a rugby full-back having to watch and run horizontally while the player is running means they are less likely to be directly head-on.

I'd suggest you watch videos like [0] to diligence your claim that head-on tackles aren't common in rugby.

The nuance that you are missing is the power equation - American football's best tacklers focus on short-duration, high-work contact (i.e. maximizing power) to knock an offensive player off their feet [1]. Think of it like placing a nail. You can swing a metal hammer and a rubber mallet (of the same mass) against the same nail and the metal hammer will always drive it better because the dt portion of the power equation (i.e. the denominator) is smaller.

The metaphor extends: rugby players may put in the same amount of work (or more!) on a given tackle, but the dt part of their power equation is much higher than in the NFL because humans are squishy (in practice this is also why you see so much more form tackling in rugby - it's hard to generate enough power to just knock someone over without wearing pads).

Ultimately, high power hits are what cause the rapid, high energy head movements that cause CTE and those are just easier to do in pads.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOFO_MzZi50 [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Bh9LHMEeY

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by CaptainHardcore on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:42AM (#31468092)
> Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not?

Because I have a seatbelt, an airbag, and a reinforced shock absorbing shell around me.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by stefan_ on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:56AM (#31468238)
So you wear a helmet as a pedestrian then? You are so unprotected!
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by CaptainHardcore on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:05AM (#31468304)
I guess if I was going to walk in the road with traffic.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by ekianjo on Monday May 23, 2022 @07:38PM (#31486202)
like an everyday pedestrian you mean?
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by Handytinge on Saturday June 04, 2022 @02:14AM (#31617530)
Everyday pedestrians generally walk on footpaths, not roads.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by Tade0 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @11:16AM (#31469061)
> So you wear a helmet as a pedestrian then?

I'm not going multiples of walking speed on something standing upright only thanks to gyroscopic forces, so no.

Also even when running I have way better maneuverability than as a cyclist.

Generally limbs > wheels when it comes to getting out of trouble.

I wear a helmet when skiing though.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by ekianjo on Monday May 23, 2022 @07:39PM (#31486210)
If a car collides with you when you walk you could make the argument its safer to have a helmet. this is not evem remotely rare in terms of occurence.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by yellowapple on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:44AM (#31468110)
> Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not?

My car has other safety measures in place to protect me from head injuries. A bicycle does not.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by ekianjo on Monday May 23, 2022 @07:40PM (#31486219)
sure, but if a helmet makes things even safer by all means lets mandate helmets in cars. I want people to follow that safety logic to the end.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by yellowapple on Tuesday May 24, 2022 @03:14AM (#31488990)
Who here is saying helmets should be mandated even for bicycles, let alone cars? Why are the only options "pursue safety to its absolute maximum" v. "don't pursue it at all"? Why can't that decision be left to the individual rider, rather than forcing riders to forego safety equipment for astoundingly-lissencephalic rationale like "helmets reduce safety"?
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by nathan_f77 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:59AM (#31468257)
> Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning.

Would it? I've never heard anyone recommend this, but if this did actually reduce the likelihood of a serious head injury in the event of a car crash, then I would seriously consider wearing a helmet while I drive a car. I have no problem wearing one while I ride a bicycle or motorbike.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by shkkmo on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:26AM (#31468506)
Motor vehicle accidents are a leading cause of traumatic brain injury related deaths. If you are under 55 the obly higher cause is suicide. (If you qre older than 55, your chances of a TBI related death from an accidental fall start to skyrocket with age.) There is a reason why race car drivers wear helmets, and it isn't just to have another place to plaster sponsor logos.

I am not aware of any studies looking specifically at the effects of helmet wearing on TBI rates of regular drivers, but then good data on that for bicycles is also hard to come by but that doesn't stop people from pushing for bicycle helmets.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by toast0 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @01:02PM (#31470322)
Race car drivers are at a lot higher risk of a collision, spin, vehicle fire, or rapid disassembly in general than general traffic. And in many forms of racing, they usually go significantly faster than general traffic too. Helmets, neck restraints, five point harnesses, and flame retardant suits all reduce risk of injuries, and would likely reduce risk in general traffic as well, but the risks seem low enough that the expense (including time to equip) of that additional equipment is too much to justify its general use. Although, if there were an easier intervention to help with neck injuries, it might likely be adopted.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by shkkmo on Sunday May 22, 2022 @01:11PM (#31470420)
> And in many forms of racing, they usually go significantly faster than general traffic too.

Yet, lethal TBIs are more likely to come from motor vehicle accidents than from bicycle accidents.

> the risks seem low enough that the expense (including time to equip) of that additional equipment is too much to justify its general use.

Yet, somehow this argument is deemed irrelevant when helmets for bicycles are discussed.

There really is not a compelling reason why helmet usage in a car is different from on a bicycle. The main difference is social acceptability, not any objective risk analysis.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by toast0 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @01:42PM (#31470762)
> Yet, lethal TBIs are more likely to come from motor vehicle accidents than from bicycle accidents.

Is that per mile, per minute, or per lethal TBI? Also, is a collision between a bicycle and a motor vehicle a motor vehicle accident or a bicycle accident?

Of course, bike helmets protect against more than just brain injury. They also protect against road abrasion of some portion of the head, which is not usually a factor for car occupants, except if they're ejected or they're in a car that rolls over and doesn't have an roof or an effective roll bar.

Bike helmets are much lower expense and hassle than car helmets (which are mostly motorcycle helmets) and neck restraints, etc. If it's a public use bike system, especially the leave anywhere bikes, the expense and hassle gets overwelming, and helmets for customers of a pedal cab would be similar.

I've got a bike helmet with integrated lighting, which adds functionality and is kind of neat, although it was much more expensive than a good enough helmet.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by shkkmo on Sunday May 22, 2022 @02:08PM (#31471047)
> per lethal TBI?

Per lethal TBI, I don't think the data exists for per mile or per minute.

> Also, is a collision between a bicycle and a motor vehicle a motor vehicle accident or a bicycle accident?

Good catch, looking at their methods, they do include IDC-10 codes for pedestrian and bicyclist injuries due to motor vehicles in that number so I am not sure how many of those are actual vehicle occupants and I can't find any data at the moment that breaks those numbers down per IDC code group.

> Bike helmets are much lower expense and hassle than car helmets (which are mostly motorcycle helmets) and neck restraints,

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by happysadpanda2 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:24AM (#31468488)
Not that it correlates much to every day driving, since both speeds and driving patterns differ, but e.g. NASCAR drivers wear helmets (along with that whole neck protection setup that latches to the helmet).

I don't know, however, if a helmet may work worse in conjuction with an airbag though. So personally I think I'd stay away from helmets in cars (but I really have too little data to make an informed decision).

Having said that, in the case of this company, perhaps they could offer their passengers a "Hövding" device? (Hövding being the swedish word for a chieftain, but "hövve" is also slang for head, and in the case of this product it is a... "backpack/necklace thingy" that is a wearable airbag. Supposedly works really well, but probably comes with a price tag matching this function.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by dropofwill on Sunday May 22, 2022 @10:34AM (#31468601)
If you take your car to a track day it’s generally required that you wear a helmet (and a bicycle helmet wouldn’t qualify).
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by ekianjo on Monday May 23, 2022 @07:41PM (#31486228)
All rally drivers wear helmets. Pretty sure its not just to have more sponsor stickers.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by aaaaaaaaata on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:35AM (#31468020)
I've seen research stating adjacent car drivers will give less space to a cyclist wearing a helmet due to implied added safety.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by enkid on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:48AM (#31468159)
This sounds like one of those papers that got published with just barely "significant statistical evidence" but never had follow-up to verify, meaning you can't really draw conclusions for it.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by analog31 on Sunday May 22, 2022 @11:31AM (#31469238)
The study was barely scientific. The researcher was his own test subject, and the result has never been replicated. Also, most crashes probably occur under conditions where the driver can't be aware of whether the cyclist is wearing a helmet or not. "The cyclist suddenly came out of nowhere" is a common defense.
Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by samatman on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:47AM (#31468150)
I know this will astonish you, but when I ride a bike, I don't always put a helmet on.

Whether I do or not has a lot to do with how likely it is that I might get in an accident. Wild right? Why would I opt for more safety gear in a more dangerous situation.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by jonathanstrange on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:58AM (#31468247)
I once organized a workshop on reasoning about uncertainty and in it a woman attended who was in charge of cycling safety for a large government organization of some EU country. She confirmed that, statistically speaking, cycling without a helmet is safer than with but mentioned this as a good example of likely confounding factors and a case where you cannot take the statistics itself for policy making.

But besides that, even if the average nation-wide number of accidents can be taken as a basis for nation-wide policy making because confounders can be ignored (a huge assumption), you can still not use this data reliably for individual decision making or policy making for smaller groups without further analysis. You need to account the variance, where the confounders occur, and what these confounding factors are. For example, regarding individual decision making, it could be the case that certain people who cycle with helmets on the average cycle more recklessly, but you cycle even more carefully with a helmet and are better protected. If so, you cannot take the average to inform your cycling. The same holds for other groups, such as professional cyclists for a company like in this article.

To give another example, consider accident statistics of self-driving cars versus human drivers nationwide. The human driver statistics include each and every reckless and drunk driver in the country, including many people with whom you'd never share a car ride. At the same time, you might have been driving accident-free for more than 40 years. For you personally, or a specific group you belong to, self-driving cars could thus be way more dangerous than driving yourself.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by dvzk on Sunday May 22, 2022 @11:20AM (#31469109)
As a frequent mountain biker, I can attest that wearing additional safety gear results in me taking more risks. I ride downhill faster, I take corners more aggressively, I take more jumps and I am less cautious over dangerous terrain. When wearing only shorts, a jersey, and a standard helmet, without pads or a full-face helmet, I ride subdued.

Some of this difference is due to the innate and insidious sense of invulnerability with protective gear. It comes naturally even the first time you don it. It's a common source of accidents and something that must be trained out of you.

Being able to get back up unscathed from bad falls also reinforces your future confidence, or lack thereof, which I can also attest from having fallen many times both with and without protective gear.

I'd still never ride without (at least) a standard helmet. If helmets do factually cause more accidents, which is plausible for the reasons I just mentioned, I'd support making helmets mandatory for employees through legislation. It doesn't matter if the numbers support the opposite conclusion: maximizing individual safety in the eventuality of a crash is paramount. If you have ever had a head impact while wearing a helmet, you will understand why.

Re:Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safet... by woeirua on Sunday May 22, 2022 @09:48AM (#31468156)
Here’s the contrarian viewpoint just for the sake of being a contrarian, in spite of decades of evidence that helmets improve cyclist safety.