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Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by ilteris on Friday May 20, 2022 @06:54AM (#31445669)
I have lived in nyc for a long time both in manhattan and Brooklyn. I have never understood how these cars and bikes are allowed to roam the streets like they do openly all day and all night while police used to be so quick to arrest youngsters who jumped turnstiles or smoked weed. The asshole in the article that is quoted even has the courage to say things like they need that sound for safety of themselves and cars and pedestrians. It's 2022, ban these cars and loud bikes from city streets. Heck ban all the unnecessary cars in city centers and just use electric vehicles. The city belongs to pedestrians, not some "tuff" redneck gang who think they can do whatever they want.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by walkhour on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:25AM (#31445899)
If you lived in Brooklyn, you'll know the main source of noise is not these cars, it's groups of people blasting music on the street and barbecuing. They last for hours. When July comes, the main source of noise is people having fun with firecrackers. They are fired throughout the night for weeks.

So yeah, this is great, but the real noise sources are harder to address, because they involve approaching a whole group of people, not a lonely person in a car.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by ochoseis on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:38AM (#31445994)
I don’t know where you live in Brooklyn but it’s a big borrow. My neighborhood is full of childish drivers with crappy modified exhaust systems that simulate the sound of an exotic super car burping/farting/backfiring into the wee hours of the morning. I would gladly welcome some kind of regulation on that.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by walkhour on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:51AM (#31446081)
Prospect Lefferts Garden and Bedstuy. Given we are sharing anecdotes, I've seen my single mom neighbor shout at a group of ten men because her daughter hadn't properly slept for weeks because they thought it was fun to play with firecrackers at 4am. Apparently her daughter was cowering in fear and unable to sleep.

They just laughed at her and kept fooling around with the firecrackers.

Next day I asked why didn't she call 311. She had been doing so for months, the police never showed up. The resolution of the incident was "not enough evidence found to sustain the complaint", or something along those lines.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by ochoseis on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:29AM (#31447090)
I’m down in Bay Ridge, and the warm weather brings kids lighting fireworks throughout the night too. It makes me feel old, but this city can be really damn noisy.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by pthread_t on Friday May 20, 2022 @10:02AM (#31447524)
And Bay Ridge is supposed to be one of the quieter neighborhoods.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by kerryoco on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:02PM (#31454333)
If you're near the main drag, Bayridge is full of ambulances, school kids, church bells, people gunning their engines.. it's pretty nuts. But go 2 blocks away and it's chirping birds I think.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by throwaway9980 on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:59AM (#31446144)
You’re describing a place that isn’t fit for living. As a a parent, I feel horrible for your neighbor. Genuinely curious what prevents people from leaving. Is it a lack of resources?
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by ghaff on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:16AM (#31446282)
In some cases it can be a lack of resources. In others, it's because that's where their friends/families/support network is. Or they want to live in an urban environment, just one without as much "urbanish" associated with it. I've lived in Manhattan for a summer, albeit at a time when it was rougher than it is today, and it was a bit tough to deal with week after week.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by walkhour on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:13AM (#31446269)
In this particular case she had lived there her whole life and I don't think she ever entertained the idea.

But many people have one year leases they don't want to break, or don't want to roll the dice just to move to an equally noisy place, or don't want to move and have to pay 30% more.

But I think it's safe to say the root cause is lack of resources.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by ilteris on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:49AM (#31446067)
I live close to a park where bbq parties go rampant on weekends. They are annoying and loud for sure and it also makes my trip to the playground with my toddler pain. I totally agree with that. Still that does not affect us in the same way these bikers and cars do in our neighborhood. These people want to scare people. That's their primary goal. They enjoy seeing people jump and start.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by tekknik on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:28AM (#31446435)
I can assure you, the amount of money a modified exhaust costs there’s easier ways to scare people and get them to jump. Open / minimal back pressure exhausts are done for the (minor in a non boosted car) performance gains. Not to scare people.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by yardie on Friday May 20, 2022 @10:02AM (#31447527)
> Open / minimal back pressure exhausts are done for the (minor in a non boosted car) performance gains. Not to scare people.

Not sure what kind of performance you are expecting in residential pedestrian streets. I've seen plenty of customs go WOT through a 25mph zone. No other reason to do that except piss people off.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by mynameishere on Friday May 20, 2022 @11:16AM (#31448609)
Indeed they're not trying to scare people. But they are also not trying for some ridiculous performance gain. They are trying to be obnoxious.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by bluedino on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:57AM (#31446764)
I don't get the push to legalize fireworks the last few years.

From about June to August all you hear is mortars. Boom. Boom Boom. Drives dogs insane, wakes up children, it's terrible.

Oh, they are only legal during the 24 hours around the 4th of July and New Years-how do you even enforce that? New Years is just a 2 hour gun shooting session anyway...

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by jijji on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:28AM (#31445919)
You're forgetting to mention the sound of the above-ground subway train that roars by all the second floor apartments every 15 minutes all day and night long, shaking the houses as it goes by. It's ironic they would make a law about noise when the loudest noises are coming from the trains, not the cars.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by chrbr on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:27AM (#31446421)
I've lived in a dense urban environment before, and my personal experience is that I don't get pissed off about noises like trains or ambulances (both of which were a large percentage of the noise). There's just something about the raw audacity of someone _knowingly_ being an asshole by having very loud exhaust or music that gets under my skin. It just about drive me mad during the pandemic, where I felt I couldn't escape it - and ended up buying an in-town single-family house. My mental health immediately started to recover, and I truly believe it's because I'm now in a situation where my personal "noise space" isn't invaded as much by people who are _knowingly_ invading it.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by walkhour on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:44AM (#31447267)
I agree with you. It may be a mental bug on my side, but me being aware that the noise is caused intentionally, it's easily avoidable, it costs very little effort for the person producing the noise to stop the noise, the person knows this, and nevertheless they continue to produce the noise, with completely disregard of people surrounding them, just makes the bad experience much worse.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by iflint on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:15AM (#31446278)
I used to live in a neighborhood of Queens next to an above ground line, and it is extremely loud. One thing I found interesting was that the support beams of the train were made of steel, however, down the street a little ways the support structure was built out of concrete. The concrete section was way quieter, despite looking nearly as old.

Having an above ground train that isn't deafeningly loud is a huge improvement to the neighborhood, and I wonder why we don't think more about making new quiet above ground lines, instead of drilling +$2B per mile tunnels. I understand that people may find them to be an eyesore, but the noise is the top issue by far. With 100 years of new technology since the last ones were built, we should be able to make huge improvements in this area.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by kmlx on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:46AM (#31446051)
> The city belongs to pedestrians, not some "tuff" redneck gang who think they can do whatever they want.

the city, any city belongs to everyone, pedestrians, “redneck gang”, etc

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by tekknik on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:31AM (#31446472)
Where is this redneck gang coming from? Rednecks are typically southerners, and definitely don’t live in a city. I should know, 1/2 my family are rednecks.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by superduperuser on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:57AM (#31447454)
Being that there are farmlands, trailers, "boonies", smallish towns all over the US, it would be safe to say that rednecks are an American phenomena rather than a southern one.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by VWWHFSfQ on Friday May 20, 2022 @10:41AM (#31448110)
I've always thought it was strange how acceptable it is to refer to a certain class of people as "rednecks" but referring to the same class of people with a different skin color as "wetbacks" is a bigtime no-no.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by earth_walker on Friday May 20, 2022 @12:48PM (#31449879)
Whether a word should or should not be used is complex, and usually a matter of context and fashion. As a society we do sometimes decide (try) to drop the regular use a word entirely due to the sheer weight of the history around its use - the argument being that it becomes impossible to remove the other connotations not matter the context.

So why is one allowed when the other is not when they seem to arise from such similar contexts?

First of all, while one might feel like its use is a 'bigtime no-no', the use of 'wetback' is still very popular in certain segments. So obviously it's only disallowed in certain contexts, e.g. around people who don't hold to that particular kind of racism, in public forums, in professional settings, etc. Among other words it's used every day as a rallying cry of the anti-migrant movement in North America, and as such has a lot of negative power.

'Redneck' on the other hand has been embraced by a 'grassroots' conservative backlash movement, which now has a certain amount of political power. So while originally it marginalized a class of people: the poor rural class that have less access to adequate education or health care, and show many of the same generational problems that visible minorities do; now the term also refers to a whole bunch of definitely not marginalized middle-class Americans. People whose grandparents would never have self-described as 'Redneck'.

These new, political 'rednecks' backlash against anything they consider liberal, including efforts to help or defend the marginalized they purport to represent.

So now in some contexts the use of the term is not only allowed, but encouraged.

But where is that liberal society that's supposed to be defending the marginalized against bad words? Well, the liberals are hypocrites, just like most everyone else in this world. They'll jump on any chance to derogate 'the other' as long as it's fashionable to do so. They certainly won't come to the defense of the 'rednecks' while it's such a convenient rally cry against Trump voters.

So it's us-versus-them politics at play here, and as in any political game the marginalized get trod on by both sides.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by mooxie on Friday May 20, 2022 @12:11PM (#31449397)
As someone who lives in the south but has done a lot of traveling both inside and outside of the US, rednecks (or redneck-equivalents) are absolutely everywhere. It's a lot more of a class/rural thing than a regional thing, and certainly in the US 'redneck culture' has become mainstream basically anywhere that is not a major urban center.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by banannaise on Friday May 20, 2022 @11:39AM (#31448950)
The crime that gets prioritized is the crime that's easy for police. Turnstile jumping? Weed? Basically harmless, but really easy for a cop to ring up some numbers and say he's keeping the city safe.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by bobbylarrybobby on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:15PM (#31454408)
What makes these crimes easier? A traffic violation only requires the license plate?
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by banannaise on Monday May 23, 2022 @09:42AM (#31478931)
That's paperwork, rather than slamming a kid's head into the floor. Paperwork isn't fun.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by lr4444lr on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:08AM (#31446224)
I have never understood how these cars and bikes are allowed to roam the streets like they do openly all day and all night while police used to be so quick to arrest youngsters who jumped turnstiles or smoked weed

Because giving chase to vehicles presents a huge public safety danger on city streets. Unless you're talking about a suspect of a major violent crime, especially when the infraction suggests drag racing tendencies, the police in many jurisdictions are very limited from pursuit.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by namlem on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:21AM (#31446330)
You don't need to give chase, just note the license plate and look up the owner it's registered to.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by octoberfranklin on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:37AM (#31447178)
This line of reasoning is why cars get stolen.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by oefrha on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:21AM (#31445875)
I have no frigging clue why these biker jerks aren’t deafened by their own noise, when they manage to give me a start from a hundred yard away every single time.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by MafellUser on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:45AM (#31446039)
They are young and only get a couple of hours of exposure per day so they can do that for a few years before they're completely deaf.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by tekknik on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:34AM (#31446506)
The sound is being pushed out behind them, and in a car it’s further muffled by the interior of the car. Nothing to do with minimal exposure.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by StanislavPetrov on Saturday May 21, 2022 @04:58AM (#31456368)
What I also haven't seen mentioned is the ear-shattering beeping that is required from commercial vehicles as they back up. It is basically a non-stop cacophony of overlapping, deafening beeps as trucks, vans and buses jockey for position and parking spots.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by _dain_ on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:53AM (#31446094)
Uh huh, yeah, it's the "rednecks" who are jumping turnstiles and smoking weed and blaring loud music. Sure.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by tekknik on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:33AM (#31446492)
> I have never understood how these cars and bikes are allowed to roam the streets like they do openly all day and all night while police used to be so quick to arrest youngsters who jumped turnstiles or smoked weed.

With the crime wave NYC is experiencing, is there not more important crimes to focus on?

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by antihero on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:17AM (#31445842)
I’d prefer to put up with mild annoyances than seep ever more into authoritarianism. Yes the guy is a dick, but you’re blowing it way out of proportion.

Honestly quite sick of the ever more sterile, dull, and gentrified cities we inhabit (I live in London).

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by gizmo on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:25AM (#31445901)
Pollution limits aren't authoritarianism. Toxic fumes and noise are both significant and harmful externalities, and the "free market" is really bad at curtailing externalities like these.

This might be dull and boring to you, but that's probably because these externalities do not significantly affect you. If you want to seek (loud and dangerous) thrills you have almost unlimited opportunities today to pursue them.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by jtbayly on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:55AM (#31446108)
There are “significant and harmful externalities” to authoritarianism, too. Have you considered them?
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by kmlx on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:48AM (#31446061)
> Pollution limits aren't authoritarianism.

of course they are, but we accept them because of the negative effects that you mention.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by amanaplanacanal on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:58AM (#31446131)
> Authoritarianism is a form of government characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and democratic voting.

From Wikipedia. Not sure how limits on pollution are anything like that.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by wowokay on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:03AM (#31446173)
That’s true, but you also can’t discount the fact that people choose to live in expensive urban areas like New York, after only sure fire way to get away from the problem would be to move.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by 5e92cb50239222b on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:35AM (#31446514)
Oh please. I'm living on the other side of the planet in a city that can't be any farther from New York in just about every way, and can relate to everything I'm reading here.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by lolinder on Friday May 20, 2022 @11:03AM (#31448432)
I live in a suburb and still relate to the complaints 100%. The only way to get away from people riding loud, stinky motorcycles/sports cars/monster trucks seems to be to live on a ranch in the middle of nowhere.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by DangitBobby on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:18AM (#31446307)
Actually, those assholes are everywhere. I was raging to my brother about a modified bike that ripped a giant fart right next to a bunch of houses, and he was saying he gets those on his street all the time.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by tekknik on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:38AM (#31446542)
> Pollution limits aren't authoritarianism. Toxic fumes and noise are both significant and harmful externalities, and the "free market" is really bad at curtailing externalities like these.

Woah now, why is there anymore “toxic fumes” than any typical exhaust? Are you confused and think the louder the exhaust the dirtier the exhaust? While this can certainly be true, the muffler has nothing to do with emissions. That’s the catalytic converter. A loud exhaust simply removes some sound baffles so the air moving has less restriction. It should not pollute more if they’ve not modified the catalytic converter.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by alx__ on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:31AM (#31445946)
I find it amusing that people purposely move into dense urban cities, then complain about all the noise. Like what did you expect? It's endless random fragments of new sounds. People have different tolerances for what is "annoying".

The most Onion bit of news I've seen is NIMBYs who buy condos next to a music venues. Then complain/litigate about noise till it gets shut down.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by _dain_ on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:45AM (#31446041)
>I find it amusing that people purposely move into dense urban cities, then complain about all the noise. Like what did you expect?

This is a defeatist attitude. You could have made the same comment a hundred years ago except replace "noise" with "smog", yet clean air regulations improved the lives of billions. Cities aren't necessarily loud; most of the noise comes from cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by throwaway2037 on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:00AM (#31446145)
Yes, I agree. Visit at any big German city on a Sunday. It is a semi-religious tradition to be quiet on Sundays (and national holidays). Even as a tourist, it was impressive! And, Germany also heavily regulates aftermarket parts for cars -- so there are almost no "rumblers" to be heard.

Tokyo is also amazingly quiet for its size and density. Just one block away from any major thoroughfare will be pleasantly quiet, but can have a lively high street with shopping, restaurants, bars, and cafes (called "sho-ten-gai").

A long time ago, I read a study about noise from high speed roads (freeways, expressways, auto-bahn, etc.) and the effect on people who live near them. They have (statistically significant) higher levels of stress, and all of the negative mental and physical effects that come with it. This is one of the major benefits from using special low-noise cement or asphalt, or trees / shrubs / barriers to reduce noise effects on people who live very close.

Finally, I'm excited for a future where more cars, trucks, and buses are electric. It will certainly make cities more quiet and livable.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by tekknik on Friday May 20, 2022 @08:42AM (#31446583)
> Finally, I'm excited for a future where more cars, trucks, and buses are electric. It will certainly make cities more quiet and livable.

What makes you think electric cars are not going to be modified? Have you ever unwound an electric motor to increase its performance and heard the noise it makes? It’s much louder. Have you heard the electric drag cars? They are also not very quiet.

Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by throw__away7391 on Friday May 20, 2022 @07:58AM (#31446130)
A significant percentage of the noise is being generated by people who live outside the city and drive in.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by LooseMarmoset on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:57AM (#31447446)
Rural person here. My personal favorite is when people move to old subdivided farm properties, then bitch endlessly to their township supervisors that the remaining farms around them generate manure smells. Also, they're used to city lights, so they put up dozens of external lights on poles and light up the whole countryside because they're scared of the dark. It's night, people. The deer and the raccoons don't care about you.
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by evandale on Saturday May 21, 2022 @09:50AM (#31457895)
Re:New York rolling out noise law, listening tech for souped... by bobbylarrybobby on Friday May 20, 2022 @09:17PM (#31454425)
What about those of us born in New York who have found that it's gotten significantly noisier recently, particularly during covid