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Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by lumost on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @09:00PM (#31418091)
Personally, I like your take - however “reasonable pay” generally defaults to “median pay”. A great employee who sticks it out for “median” pay, might be selling themselves short, but this can be made up for with a reasonable boss and team you like working with.

Netflix effectively pays the “max pay” for all positions. Naturally, they do not have difficulty hiring with this philosophy - but it comes with the trade off that they either need a rediculous interview gauntlet or performance management process. They do a bit of both from what I understand.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by hintymad on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @02:21AM (#31419781)
> Naturally, they do not have difficulty hiring with this philosophy -

This is a common conception. Netflix's option plan is extremely generous. Per this link (https://www.teamblind.com/post/Netflix-is-a-truly-great-comp...), a Netflix employ would lose monly only if its stock price always goes down: "Netflix is generous in giving you options. Its option plan was the best in the world. It allows you to forfeit your salary for options. The options had 5X of discount, and later 2.5 times. The company also gave you for free options that is worth 5% of your total salary. Your options vest every month. And of course, the options will not expire until 10 years later. That is, Netflix does NOT even tries to use delayed vesting schedule to retain you. "

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by hintymad on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @04:38PM (#31427327)
*misconception
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by thatfrenchguy on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @10:50PM (#31418753)
Netflix doesn’t pay max pay though, they pay «5-6 year of experience at a FAANG » in cash according to levels.fyi. This does not compensate for the layoff risk in any meaningful way.
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by trunnell on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @11:32PM (#31418969)
Former Netflix manager here. Netflix frequently competes for L6/L7 talent against Google, Apple, and FB -- and wins. Look at the detail view on levels.fyi and sort by compensation. They pay extremely well for the best talent.

But that's not really the point. Your job safety is ultimately about whether other companies would hire you. And if you're good enough to get a role at Netflix, then you can get another job extremely quickly here in the valley. Most top recruiters know that Netflix is very selective. I have yet to see anyone who was let go at Netflix struggle to get another job. They usually get multiple offers, in fact.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by throwaway_1928 on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @11:49PM (#31419052)
But to have an axe constantly dangling over your head is no way to live. If you are competent, better to choose a more dignified existence along with high pay. And with Netflix stock down 72% in 6 months, the choice becomes even easier.
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by pedrosorio on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @12:15AM (#31419175)
> But to have an axe constantly dangling over your head is no way to live. If you are competent, better to choose a more dignified existence

And yet, you often hear of Google's rest and vest culture and how bored people are in that environment. Some people might prefer an all-around high achiever culture, at certain points in their careers.

> And with Netflix stock down 72% in 6 months

Given Netflix's compensation structure (all cash) this is irrelevant unless you believe the market valuation indicates the company is doomed in the short term.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by throwaway_1928 on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @12:34AM (#31419256)
> Given Netflix's compensation structure (all cash) this is irrelevant

Netflix's market valuation is extremely relevant. The only reason we are discussing Netflix on this thread is that layoffs there have begun.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by AlchemistCamp on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @03:14AM (#31420047)
Market value fluctuations aren't the same thing as profit or even revenue. A company doesn't suddenly lose money and have to lay people off due to others trading its stock for less money. And they don't get rich when the stock price goes up, either. Unless they sell more shares in a secondary public offering or similar, their cash flows stay the same.

The effect is much more subtle and it has more of an impact on companies where equity is a big part of employee compensation.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by throwaway_1928 on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @10:07AM (#31422954)
Market value and revenue/profit are not the same thing but they are very related.

Netflix's market value falling 72% means the market has a negative view of Netflix's foreseeable ability to sustain or grow revenues and profits.

You are right in that it is possible that Netflix has the market fooled and in reality is growing its revenues and profits and cash flows at an even greater rate than expected and it is all just one big misunderstanding.

If that is the case, Netflix can always choose to 'go private', where it no longer sees a need for public market funding and believes that savvy private investors combined with its revenues and cash flows can fund its operations and growth.

But as a public company, its stock price and market value also signify access to capital. The less capital Netflix has access to, the less it can invest in its existing and growth operations, like the 100s of shows it creates every year.

With access to less capital, Netflix will keep on fewer of its 'dream team athlete' workers, even with their all cash and no stock compensation, which is why we are starting to see layoffs.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by AlchemistCamp on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @10:11AM (#31423004)
Stock prices are mostly tied to reality in the long run, but barely at all in the short run.
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by throwaway_1928 on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @10:20AM (#31423114)
That is true, but "Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent".

If their stock price keeps tanking, layoffs are inevitable. This is sadly true for much of the economy if it goes into recession.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by lumost on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @10:06AM (#31422940)
Variable stock compensation for engineers does have the benefit that it fluctuates with investor perceptions of company performance. In theory investors may not care about compensation in a flat/growth stock, but seeing a 10% decline in personnel expenses on a stock down 25% is definitely appealing to investors.
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by scarface74 on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @12:37AM (#31419267)
If you’re “living in a position of f%%% you” (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI) which you should be in a couple of years making a Netflix salary, a layoff is just an inconvenience. Heck how many software engineers at any of the top tech companies have trouble finding a job quickly?
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by throwaway_1928 on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @12:43AM (#31419296)
Agreed. Being laid off after a couple of years at 500k/yr is better than grinding it out for a decade at 100k/yr. And you can always choose the grind after the layoff.
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by daniel-cussen on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @11:58PM (#31419089)
OK this sounds like a disagreement, after you spoke the air was full of disagreement-sounding words, but this is an agreement with the parent posters. So yeah that's what you want, pony up the cash, pay the best demand the best fire everyone else, that's not for you--that's, that's not for you--but it is for someone, like if my fgemm.com thing goes to shit which it technically could hey maybe Netflix. By all means. High stakes, exactly like they said, like a pro sports team. Those teams have really high turnover let's just say, you can get fired like a bullet out of a machine gun, very rapidly. Right away.

So really it's not a question of quality--as though such a thing existed among employers--it's a question of elitism, and Netflix pays the price of being elitist. Which many places don't, they say they only hire the best bla bla well first off they don't hire the best because they didn't hire me, so second best in the most favorable view, and second off they want to...uh...pay the median for the best. Paying 50 percentile salaries--not even 51 percentile, just 50 percentile--for 99 percentile people according to their unpaid homework. Which is not worth a fuck, you can put original research and break impossibility limits on the unpaid homework, it won't matter if they smell excess dignity. DNANexus and JITX got crazy results and they didn't bite why? Don't know. Yeah I'm a fucking arrogant guy[1] I can read what I write but still, that's consistent with being the best (at the particular thing I do best, which isn't everything by any means, but programming interviews I always, always, always nail without prep), but they don't want spine. No spine. Except Elon Musk, weirdly enough. A few other places. Netflix too it appears, well like those sport teams, there's fucking arrogant guys there too, most athletes. Elitism means flowing with that, and most companies just don't.

And in general, most places saying they're hiring? Are actually firing. Not hiring, so much as firing. They're not growing, they're trying to diminish those W-2 line items with cheaper replacements, so there's a built-in cap to what you can ask of them, and then you hit a wall. And you're competing back and forth with a guy you can't talk to. They rip the job description of his resume.

So at least Netflix is consistent.

[1] To the point I consider myself a slave of GOD, knowing the last shall be the first (Matthew KJV).

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by StillLrning123 on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @12:28AM (#31419230)
That was like reading a quote from "The Wolf of Wall Street" or "American Psycho".
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by daniel-cussen on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @01:01AM (#31419391)
Fair. But I act in good faith.

EDIT: So in fact those are the two mainstream ways of ending up sick, drug use like Wolf of Wall Street ("it's your own fault, you were warned") and it being congenital like in American Psycho ("ew stay away from me don't get near me it's a deformity").

But there's a third way, malpractice. And you can't look down on that the same way. It's in now way my fault, you can't look at me like I'm inferior like for the other two cases. It's very, very different. It could happen to you through no fault of your own, or any reader, it's the shrink's fault, Doctor Jorge Barros Beck. The disease comes from him, he has both the drugs and the deformity.

If you so much as talk to him, you could have your eyes open and yet open your eyes. Reading this comment one instant, the next instant in a torture ward a month in the future unable to communicate in your own thoughts, halfway through this...did you make it to the end of this sentence?

So you know what, be happy you know anything, be happy you can remember anything, be happy to be. Live in the moment between the lacunae. And if you wake up there, know when you reread this years later there was no advice I can have given you that you will have been allowed to recall.

Read up on my comments, I talk at length about it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=daniel-cussen

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by monkey_monkey on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @04:55AM (#31420578)
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by daniel-cussen on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @02:27PM (#31426048)
Hopefully you will not have found out the hard way, either.
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by danrocks on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @04:14PM (#31427094)
I read your posts twice and I don’t think they convey anything coherent in the context of this discussion. What is your main point, simplified?
Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by samhw on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @08:49PM (#31429398)
This was hilarious. I hope it was meant to be. I liked the parody of the deluded man who thinks he's the best and that no one recognises his genius - maybe it was a bit on the nose, a bit too cliché, but nevertheless. It was a nice touch that the character spends, like, a thousand words saying nothing at all besides "I am smart, Netflix hires smart people, like me, I am smart, Netflix doesn't hire me, but I am smart enough that I will eventually make this syllogism make sense, I am smart, also I am smart".

It also explains quite well why I don't hire people like your character. They think they aren't hired because of their arrogance, like it's a downside that only merely vitiates their tremendous intelligence. In reality an attitude like that is a nearly-perfectly-reliable signal of someone who's totally deluded about their own intelligence. Truly super-intelligent people of course are not chippy, insecure, oppositional, constantly expatiating upon their great intelligence, etc - it's just a given, a neutral fact, much like the way Bill Gates doesn't go on about how much money he has, whereas a recruitment consultant earning 50k a year will go on about such.

Anyway, I enjoyed the skit. Thank you for sharing it. The technique of your not using quotation marks and suchlike really imbues it with a sense of great immediacy and realism. Marvelous stuff.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by donthellbanme on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @09:13PM (#31418171)
Liking the place you spend more time in than your own living room matters.

I have stuck with subpar pay because I liked my bosses, and didn't hate comming into work.

I have quit high paying jobs, with union representation.

(And yes--those bastards will eventually drag us all back. I thought Jamie Diamond's demand that if you want to work here show up to the office. Even Diamond retreated. Might be the only war he ever lost? Then again Diamond might be feeling less immortal? He had his aorta replaced a year ago, and is a survivor of throat cancer. I don't know why I'm writing so much about Diamond. Maybe--because if I had a do-over, I would have gone into finance, and hopefully retire early?)

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by nuclearnice3 on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @10:03PM (#31418482)
> Might be the only war he ever lost?

He was fired from Citigroup in 1998 by Sandy Weil, who he had worked with for 15 years. So there's that.

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by mjamil on Tuesday May 17, 2022 @09:40PM (#31418355)
Nit: Jamie Dimon (and not Diamond).

Less of a nit: You apparently care about liking your workplace. Sample size of 1, but I know of (a) no-one who went into finance who enjoyed their tenure; and (b) plenty of folks that retired early from their tech careers and none from their finance careers. (Most have moved from i-banking to PE or VC, but they’re still slogging away.)

Re:Netflix lays off about 150 employees by astrange on Wednesday May 18, 2022 @03:19AM (#31420077)
Before they pay you a lot in finance, they probably do a better job making sure your expenses grow with it so you can’t retire on them.