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Re:Agile and the long crisis of software by piva00 on Monday May 09, 2022 @05:18AM (#31312089)
Agile as per the Agile Manifesto isn't bad. At all.

I saw the transition of the industry from a complete waterfall process to the overhyping of agile, the pushback and now the land where agile as per the manifesto is more-or-less a given. The old ways were so much worse...

The bad sprouts from agile are the multitude of processes and bullshit methodologies that tried to ride the hype and create "The Agile Way". Scrum and others are a side-effect of this and I'm very glad to see Scrum being shunned for the past 4-6 years and instead engineers being attracted towards much more lightweight processes.

The problem with agile is that it only works when people had experiences, bad and good, and a team can tailor how their agile process should look like given their constraints. Throwing a bunch of juniors under an agile methodology and telling them what's right or not only creates friction and useless rituals, you need experienced people (PMs, EMs and at least one engineer) to cut the bullshit and stick to the points that matter: collaboration, communication, re-assessment of priorities, etc.

Re:Agile and the long crisis of software by pydry on Monday May 09, 2022 @05:44AM (#31312210)
It's vague as hell though. Everybody from the agile consultants to the CEO down to the lowliest engineer projected their desires and intrinsic meaning on to the agile manifesto.

If you ask 10 people what agile "really" means you'll get 10 different answers, many quite incompatible with each other.

Re:Agile and the long crisis of software by cestith on Monday May 09, 2022 @12:22PM (#31316104)
Agile focuses on the continuous improvement of not just the software, but the process. They tried to be specifically not too verbose, as dedication to one size and shape of process that does not fit all is precisely what they were against. Agile can be thought of as a meta-process. It's an attitude and a process for improving your process. Think kaizen for your software development team. It's about the tight feedback loop about what's working, what's not working, and what can be improved.

Beyond that, 10 people might find that the processes they've refined from Agile really do differ. That might be because of differing (and broken) application of Agile itself, which is a common claim. It might be, though, that continuous improvement of process has lead different teams in different directions that function well or well enough for those teams.

Re:Agile and the long crisis of software by throwaway6532 on Monday May 09, 2022 @10:29PM (#31322713)
Precisely.

You could replace the entire thing with "shorter feedback loops" and it would be significantly more meaningful.

Re:Agile and the long crisis of software by ericbarrett on Monday May 09, 2022 @02:54PM (#31318249)
Fully agree with you, Agile as first proposed was like opening a window in a house in the desert in July; such a breath of fresh air. In the early 2000s you were ahead of the curve if you could manage a point release every six months. Saying "continuous development" would have gotten you laughed out of the building.
Re:Agile and the long crisis of software by throwaway6532 on Monday May 09, 2022 @10:28PM (#31322704)
>Agile as per the Agile Manifesto isn't bad. At all.

If you actually read it it really is just a bunch of words that doesn't specify much of anything at all. To me it reads as something incredibly vague and hand-wavy and how on earth modern Agile has been inferred out of the text of the agile manifesto is somewhat beyond me.

Re:Agile and the long crisis of software by piva00 on Tuesday May 10, 2022 @03:53AM (#31324604)
It's a product of its time, it has seeded practices that for us is common knowledge nowadays. In 2005 it wasn't, most software companies were still stuck with long feedback loops, hierarchical decision making and goal-setting, over-analysis of requirements and little to no maneuvering room to change requirements once development was started.

It's vague exactly because it's a manifesto, not a handbook on how to apply it.