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Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by singular on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @07:32AM (#3129632)
though off-topic and a bit of an aside, at university (I did civ eng) I learnt that it was possible to get cm-levels of accuracy out of GPS through clever arrangement of multiple sensors (for e.g. measuring the movement of buildings due to subsidence, etc.)

In fact I just found a wikipedia article all about it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_augmentation :)

Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by eps on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @08:17AM (#3129772)
In mid 90s I worked for a company that developed combined GPS/GLONASS receiver and aimed specifically at high-precision measurement market. With clever math modeling and by letting a receiver rest on one spot for longer periods of time, e.g. 30 min, they could get the precision down to 3 mm (millimeters). And that's without A-GPS, purely through oversampling of satellite data.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by singular on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @11:00AM (#3130423)
It's funny you mention that, as I swear the professor said it could be done to accuracy of mm, but after reviewing the wikipedia articles I had concluded I misremembered. Perhaps not...
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by juiceandjuice on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @12:43PM (#3130909)
You can, but you need to need to analyze the phase of the GPS signals at the analog level (not the the code phase)
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by CamperBob on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @05:22PM (#3132161)
So the carrier phase is derived from the Cs/Rb clocks on the satellites? That's pretty neat, if so.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by omgtehlion on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @09:05AM (#3129938)
That company was Javad, no?
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by eps on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @04:34PM (#3131936)
It was Javad's, but before Javad, the company.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by nodata on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @07:42AM (#3129656)
They use this on automated farms. At known co-ordinates, they stick a GPS receiver in the ground. The difference between the known co-ordinates and what that GPS receiver sees is then continuously transmitted to the vehicles on the farm.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by mikepurvis on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @08:08AM (#3129734)
It's called rtk correction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Time_Kinematic

There's an opensource rtklib which supports a handful of inexpensive receivers: http://gpspp.sakura.ne.jp/rtklib/rtklib.htm

Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by modeless on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @12:16PM (#3130790)
Why don't cell towers do this?
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by fleitz on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @01:59PM (#3131261)
Cell towers kind of do by providing an accurate time and other features in AGPS.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by modeless on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @04:04PM (#3131809)
Not really. AGPS improves the time it takes to lock on to the GPS signal, but it doesn't improve accuracy.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by nobody314159 on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @05:05PM (#3132089)
You need a receiver in the phone that can phase track, which costs 50x as much as the simple GPS chip they fit.

You also need either a lot of storage locally or a fast data link between the base station and the rover - phones actually have both of these but they cost money

Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by jrockway on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @07:15PM (#3132572)
You need a receiver in the phone that can phase track, which costs 50x as much as the simple GPS chip they fit.

So, $0.50 instead of $0.01? :)

Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by nobody314159 on Thursday October 20, 2011 @02:18PM (#3136095)
I think Phase tracking GPS chipsets are still pricey - outside surveying applicatiosn there isn't much demand.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by wyclif on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @08:28AM (#3129807)
Yes, until the property market crashed in the US I was a land surveyor. This is the same principle used in RTK/GPS (real-time kinematic) measurement. A "zephyr" GPS antenna is placed on a coordinate "base" usually 2m above it on a tripod, which then continually updates and measures the difference in distance between it and the "rover" antenna carried by the surveyor, as well as the satellite network.

I used to have an updating map on the web of all the GLONASS satellites the Russian government had put into orbit, but it was taken down.

Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by FrojoS on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @10:44AM (#3130352)
Thats very interesting. Do you have any information on how much these farms are automated?
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by randomdata on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @11:59AM (#3130706)
Autosteer is quickly gaining in popularity. From looking at the farm equipment in my area, I'd guess that 40% have GPS systems on their tractors/combines based on observing the antennas on the equipment. Precision farming is becoming important to increasing yields and reducing costs.

Right now, Kinze are heavily touting their autonomous system for grain carts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhA5aIw7xNk

John Deere and CNH have similar systems in actual production, but still require an operator to be present for safety reasons. And safety seems to be the big limiting factor. While the technology is basically there, nobody wants to remove the operator just yet. Though in this video, someone disabled the safety sensors to go fully autonomous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU4liQvrcm4

Most farmers are pulling their RTK data over wireless/mobile internet connections, rather than having their own base station. I don't know of anyone who maintains their own station. A few companies have placed base stations around various places in the countryside and will happily sell you their data.

Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by rmoriz on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @01:10PM (#3131050)
maybe interesting:

In Europe (and of course in Germany) the federal governments offer realtime gps correction data via IP or 3G (radio was shut down a few years ago).

They offer a precision of 1cm-2cm used together with GPS/GLONASS

PDF: http://www.sapos.de/pdf/Flyer/2004Flyer_e.pdf

(Sorry, German language only:)

http://www.sapos.de/ http://sapos.bayern.de/service.php

Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by ghshephard on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @11:32AM (#3130587)
In 1995 I worked for a GPS developer, Avcan Avionics, and we built software that would allow tundra devices in the Arctic to travel between a supply depot and remote mines in 100% whiteout conditions, navigating only by a path that had been loaded into GPS. Our variant of this process was called "Differential GPS" - basically leaving a base station in single location for 24+ Hours where it would eliminate the S/A error which was presumably random.

We successfully navigated a car down a twisting road, about 10' wide, without looking out the window, so it was a useful mechanism. It became less important, of course, once the US Government removed the S/A error from the GPS signal and the commercial use of GPS took off.

Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by Symmetry on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @10:58AM (#3130413)
I'd imagine that if you just left a GPS receiver in the same place for long enough, the movement of the GPS satellites would provide some decent dithering for the signal, letting you get fairly decent accuracy just by averaging a lot of measurements. I'm sure there are other methods that work more quickly, though.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by Shenglong on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @11:55AM (#3130685)
I know carrier phase differential GPS is used on satellites to get amazing accuracy. I'm not quite sure what the implications are on mobile phones.
Re:IPhone 4S has GLONASS in addition to GPS by teyc on Wednesday October 19, 2011 @08:05PM (#3132732)