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Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by ttul on Monday May 02, 2022 @10:38PM (#31243813)
To the extent that nuclear power plants emit waste heat, you can use this waste heat to counteract the frigid temperatures found in the Canadian hinterland, displacing the need for natural gas and oil heating of industrial processes.
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by BeeBoBub on Monday May 02, 2022 @10:50PM (#31243907)
This is an interesting idea for waste heat. Is the waste heat a nuclear power plant produces significant? My understanding is you want all your heat working to spin your turbine.
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by cjensen on Monday May 02, 2022 @10:59PM (#31243975)
It's a very old idea which is in use in many places [1] -- and not just for nuclear plants. Main constraint is that you really can't transport the waste heat very far.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by tempestn on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @01:18AM (#31244927)
Although an advantage of these smaller plants is that they can be located closer to where the heat is needed.
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by Manuel_D on Monday May 02, 2022 @10:53PM (#31243935)
Yes, ideally all the energy released by the reactor would go into the turbine. But no engine is 100% efficient, and waste heat is inevitable. Waste heat is "free" energy in the sense that it would have otherwise not been harnessed for something useful.
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by eternauta3k on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @01:41AM (#31245037)
Waste heat is not free to the degree that you're not cooling your cold side as efficiently. If "sending heat to homes" has the same thermal resistance as "just dissipate it", then sure.

However, I find it elegant that heat is directly used to heat homes, rather than turning it into low-entropy electricity just to turn it to heat again (which is inelegant, even with heat pumps).

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by ip26 on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @10:28AM (#31248751)
Burning natural gas to make electricity to run a heat pump isn’t elegant- but it is more efficient.

We need a heat pump that is heat-powered…

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by eternauta3k on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @04:04AM (#31257916)
There are old propane refrigerators which do exactly that (heat powered heat pumps).

Have you done the math to check whether it's more efficient?

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by ip26 on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @10:38AM (#31261075)
A natural gas furnace is up to 98% efficient. A natural gas turbine is 40-60% efficient; a modern heat pump can have a COP of 3 or even 4, for 150-200% equivalent efficiency (ballpark).
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by wumpus on Monday May 02, 2022 @11:59PM (#31244429)
How does this work with solar panels and wind turbines?

I know that fossil fuel plants have a lot of waste heat that enables cogeneration, but I've never heard of that with solar or wind.

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by illirik on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @12:57AM (#31244799)
A fossil fuel plant will burn fuel to produce heat. Some of this heat will be used for generation, and the remainder is waste heat. A solar panel or wind turbine, on the other hand, does not produce significant amounts of heat in operation - a PV solar panel would only get somewhat warm, a wind turbine would only achieve some friction heating - to where it is not economical to harness this relatively small amount of energy (compared to waste heat from an exothermic generation process, like nuclear fission or hydrocarbon combustion)
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by arcticbull on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @01:00AM (#31244813)
Solar panels are super thermally inefficient generally speaking, collecting about 20% of the energy that hits the panel. They are dark, and this leaves a lot of heat available for the gathering. You can get solar systems that heat water as well, especially in rooftop solar. This also cools the panels down and makes them more efficient. Not much, but measurably. Something like this. [1]

Of course, in the winter in Canada, you have to bleed the system otherwise the water will freeze in the tubes and they'll burst.

There's no free heat from a wind turbine.

[1] https://dualsun.com/en/product/hybrid-panel-spring/

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by hkt on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @01:58AM (#31245157)
Actually, wind turbines do produce heat but we generally let it dissipate. It may be that it is not really usable, but wind turbines that only produce heat are a thing historically:

https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/02/heat-your-house-with...

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by arcticbull on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @05:34AM (#31246357)
I think the issue is you can’t really move heat too far physically, and turbines are located usually pretty far from houses themselves. Certainly relative to rooftop solar.
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by hkt on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @04:18AM (#31257989)
No argument here, I was just being a pedant really
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by arcticbull on Wednesday May 04, 2022 @07:31AM (#31259054)
I appreciated your comment because I hadn’t actually thought about that before!
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by BurningFrog on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @11:25AM (#31249460)
My memory from the old Swedish nuclear debates is that the generated waste heat is about as much energy as the generated electricity.

There was talk of heating cities with the waste water, but "nucleophobia" killed that idea, as usual.

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by Manuel_D on Monday May 02, 2022 @10:51PM (#31243912)
Desalination through waste heat is also viable. It's "free" energy in the sense that it would have otherwise gone unused.
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by ars on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @12:52AM (#31244775)
Desalination does not use heat anymore, it's all membrane based.

Also, you'd need enough heat to boil water, but the waste heat, by definition, is lower than the boiling point of water (otherwise the turbine doesn't work).

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by Manuel_D on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @11:05AM (#31249225)
Desalination can be done through osmosis, which is membrane based. It can also be done through evaporation, which is much less efficient. But if you have a free source of heat, that inefficiency is a non issue.

The waste heat from a steam turbine is higher than boiling. Otherwise the turbine wouldn't work. The boiler turns water into steam, which produces pressure to drive a turbine. The condenser takes the low pressure steam and condenses it back to water.

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by rkagerer on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @03:24AM (#31245652)
That would only help near the coasts. Most of Canada's population is in southern Ontario and Quebec where there's no saltwater.
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by LatteLazy on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @07:22AM (#31246975)
Which is great if you don't mind living a few 100m from a live nuclear plant, and you have a massive backup heat supply when the plant is closed for maintenance...
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by SkyMarshal on Monday May 02, 2022 @10:59PM (#31243973)
How do you transfer the waste heat from the nuclear plant to the industrial processes that would use it in place of oil and gas? Just co-locate them all together?
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by robonerd on Monday May 02, 2022 @11:06PM (#31244028)
You can pipe steam for a few miles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_heating

Though for industrial purposes (rather than just heating buildings) you'd probably have to be closer.

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by ars on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @12:53AM (#31244779)
The waste heat from a power plant (any kind), is not hot enough to make steam, unless you deliberately make it less efficient.

You can make hot water though.

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by ComputerGuru on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @01:02AM (#31244833)
Just a reminder that “steam” does not directly imply any specific temperature threshold as it is a function of relative pressure. Pumped into a (near) vacuum, warm water will turn to “steam.” (Cost of pulling a vacuum not considered.)
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by robonerd on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @01:21AM (#31244947)
What's to say that demand needs to be met with waste heat? Couldn't a plant tap off and sell some of the steam that would otherwise be sent to the turbines?
Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by jamincan on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @07:42AM (#31247106)
Yes, and that has been done in the past. It comes at the cost of lower power production, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Nuclear_Generating_Stati...

Re:A first for Canada: New type of nuclear plant opening by ... by robonerd on Tuesday May 03, 2022 @02:52PM (#31252038)
> It comes at the cost of lower power production

Lower electrical production, not lower power production.