Re:Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by _Microft on Saturday April 30, 2022 @05:19PM
(#31219472)
You can easily build some of these circuits with very low investment. The ICs (555; 4017; ...) for circuits like the "LED sequencers" are very cheap (less than $1/1€ each). With ICs in DIP packages [0], the circuits can be built on breadboards [1] since the pins can be inserted directly into the holes of the breadboards. If you are new to this then you can find an overview of electronic symbols in Wikipedia [2] for example - this is helpful because it gives you names and terms to search for.
Having even a cheap multimeter to measure voltages, resistances or the polarity of diodes is better than nothing btw (but better don't use these to measure line/mains power - even if they claim to be able to do that).
Re:Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by kragen on Saturday April 30, 2022 @09:07PM
(#31221106)
According to https://yaqwsx.github.io/jlcparts/ the NE555DR costs 11.98¢ but of course not in a DIP. That's about as much as four Padauk microcontrollers these days—if you can find those in stock somewhere. JLCPCB doesn't include the CD4017 in their "basic parts" list; Digi-Key has them for 52¢ but doesn't have a DIP version in stock, just an SOIC.
The other night I took apart my cheap multimeter which claims "1000 V" and found no creepage clearance between the traces on the board. So far I haven't died measuring mains power with it but I don't think I'll do that anymore...
Re:Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by buescher on Saturday April 30, 2022 @10:22PM
(#31221539)
555 timer is a sub-10-cent part in quantity. Digi-key even has the NE555P in stock for 40 cents onesies and 11 cents in 2500 unit orders. And there's a parts shortage on, if you haven't looked lately.
Yeah, don't use cheap tools when your life is on the line.
Re:Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by asddubs on Sunday May 01, 2022 @07:15AM
(#31224035)
so what's your point? people should be buying a reel of one time programmable microcontrollers that you'll have to program in an esoteric language in a proprietary toolchain and a programmer that costs more than 8 cents? Or put together one of those open hardware programmers themselves?
I mean the padauk stuff is not really a very beginner friendly environment, and it's not as cheap to get going once you consider the accessories needed. just buying and re-using an arduino or a knockoff for a couple dollars would probably be better if you wanted to make the case that a microcontroller is a better place to start.
Re:Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by kragen on Sunday May 01, 2022 @07:04PM
(#31229596)
I had several points:
1. For jellybean ICs "less than [US]$1" understates the case by about an order of magnitude; it's less than [US]$⅒.
2. Other ICs mentioned like the CD4017 have ceased to be jellybean parts and have become esoteric specialty parts, but they're still less than US$1, if you can find them.
3. The reason for this is that, as microcontrollers have gotten cheaper and more capable, the range of circuits for which they are a good fit has grown enormously, and in particular covers just about every circuit where you'd use a CD4017. And once you have a microcontroller in your circuit you probably don't need a 4017 or a 555 because you can usually replace them with 1–5 lines of code.
4. Probing line power with a questionable-quality multimeter really is dangerous.
Does that clarify?
I agree that Arduino is a much more beginner-friendly environment, even more so than quasi-analog DIPs in a breadboard, and also that the programmer hardware for the Padauk μCs is a significant obstacle.
Re:Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by buescher on Sunday May 01, 2022 @11:25AM
(#31225768)
Sorry, for some reason I saw $11, not 11 cents and thought you were looking at a broker site at a very particular part.
The biggest reason I wouldn't use Padauk microcontrollers is that they're not available in north american distribution.
I personally really don't get the 555 timer love - almost anything people would do with one for a small design with no firmware, I would use an lm339 type quad comparator. They are great for detecting the presence/absence of pulses though.
I don't even like building this kind of pure analog stuff, but this retro site is just such a wonderful thing. Just like the days when tech was still exciting, despite being so much more primitive.
Re:Bowden's Hobby Circuits
by Kaibeezy on Sunday May 01, 2022 @05:20AM
(#31223427)
OK, I only said that because it displays in Comic Sans on my Windows desktop (Chrome, Opera, Firefox, Edge), but now I see it looks fine in Times on iOS (Safari, Opera).
Having even a cheap multimeter to measure voltages, resistances or the polarity of diodes is better than nothing btw (but better don't use these to measure line/mains power - even if they claim to be able to do that).
Have fun!
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_in-line_package
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadboard
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_symbol
The other night I took apart my cheap multimeter which claims "1000 V" and found no creepage clearance between the traces on the board. So far I haven't died measuring mains power with it but I don't think I'll do that anymore...
Yeah, don't use cheap tools when your life is on the line.
I mean the padauk stuff is not really a very beginner friendly environment, and it's not as cheap to get going once you consider the accessories needed. just buying and re-using an arduino or a knockoff for a couple dollars would probably be better if you wanted to make the case that a microcontroller is a better place to start.
1. For jellybean ICs "less than [US]$1" understates the case by about an order of magnitude; it's less than [US]$⅒.
2. Other ICs mentioned like the CD4017 have ceased to be jellybean parts and have become esoteric specialty parts, but they're still less than US$1, if you can find them.
3. The reason for this is that, as microcontrollers have gotten cheaper and more capable, the range of circuits for which they are a good fit has grown enormously, and in particular covers just about every circuit where you'd use a CD4017. And once you have a microcontroller in your circuit you probably don't need a 4017 or a 555 because you can usually replace them with 1–5 lines of code.
4. Probing line power with a questionable-quality multimeter really is dangerous.
Does that clarify?
I agree that Arduino is a much more beginner-friendly environment, even more so than quasi-analog DIPs in a breadboard, and also that the programmer hardware for the Padauk μCs is a significant obstacle.
The biggest reason I wouldn't use Padauk microcontrollers is that they're not available in north american distribution.
I personally really don't get the 555 timer love - almost anything people would do with one for a small design with no firmware, I would use an lm339 type quad comparator. They are great for detecting the presence/absence of pulses though.
I don't even like building this kind of pure analog stuff, but this retro site is just such a wonderful thing. Just like the days when tech was still exciting, despite being so much more primitive.
https://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/
I’ve had the tab open for years, can’t bear to close it. I should get a big printout and hang it up.