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Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by autoexec on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @02:48PM (#31184138)
Actual security issues like not swiping to enter a secured area are one thing, but I'll never understand the obsession with dress codes and small appliances. It just feels like power tripping or laziness. There can be problems with some devices and with what people wear (and hygiene in general), but I'd much rather work at a place that addresses those issues only when needed while treating everyone like adults instead of like children who can't be trusted to pick out their own clothes.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by mindcrime on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @03:21PM (#31184556)
The small appliance thing is at least a little bit quasi-legitimate. I mean, true, very few modern small appliances are just going to randomly burst into flame, and that's as true whether they are sitting in your kitchen or living room, or sitting in a corporate break room, or at your desk. But... the devil is in the details. From a fire safety perspective, I'd cite two things that cause me to say "quasi legitimate" about this:

1. Putting appliances in random places (like your cubicle) can sometimes lead people to running extension cords to power these additional devices. And excessively long, or poor quality, or "excessively long, poor quality" extension cords can absolutely be a fire hazard. This is especially true when people don't understand "current carrying capacity" vis-a-vis wire gauge and choose the wrong cord for a given load.

2. Space heaters. If you include space heaters in your definition of "small appliance", then there is a fairly real risk. First, it's very easy for flammable materials to simply get too close to the heating elements of the heater, and catch fire. Second, space heaters tend to draw a LOT of current - typically more than can be handled by your generic power strip. And people don't understand this, and will happily plug a space heater into a power strip, which will then melt, short out, and catch fire.

On balance, the odds of having a fire caused by most small appliances in offices is still probably fairly low, but the risk is non-zero. And having a blanket ban, instead of trying to distinguish "well, your blender is OK, but the space heater has to go" is just the slightly lazier way to dealing with it.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by jonathanlydall on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @04:13PM (#31185143)
I suspect that the risk of power strips/cords melting is substantially higher when you’re only on 110V compared to 230V.

While 110V might be less of a shock risk compared to 230V, I have to wonder how much of a difference it actually makes in practice, like how much less likely are to die from the lower voltage?

Because on the other hand, the lower voltage increases the fire risk.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by marcosdumay on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @07:16PM (#31187006)
If a small appliance catching fire is enough to endanger your office, your office is wrong. Go fix it, and stop with the security theater. An appliance consuming too much power should never be a fire hazard. A bad extension chord should not be a fire hazard in any usual space in an office.

And by all means, if you have some high-risk area (storage rooms are quite common ones), do make special policy for it. But if you insist on the same policy for every area, you are actually endangering people.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by tinalumfoil on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @03:52PM (#31184902)
These are all things people do constantly in their own homes, and are willing to accept the risk. It seems inefficient that people go to work and accept all these risk-averse mandates (no consumer coffee machines -- they might burst into flames!) then go home and fall asleep to their 1500W space heater plugged into the same power strip as the 50" poorly mounted TV they fell asleep watching.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by mschuster91 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @04:24PM (#31185290)
A consumer coffee maker will not be designed for handling 50 people requiring a cup of coffee every two hours.

The other limitations, particularly regarding space heaters and fans, usually come from fire insurance. Your premiums will be substantially lower if you prove your business gets regularly inspected for compliance and that electrical appliances get regularly checked if they are properly installed (i.e. no stacks of extension cords, no damage on the cable from chairs rolling over it or from floor tank lids).

In contrast, home fire insurance will often have priced in damages from such unsafe practices, and a no-pay clause for gross negligence - particularly the latter is what any reasonable business will be keen to avoid given the disastrous impact a fire can have.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by hex4def6 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @05:26PM (#31186022)
I don't disagree that a simple drop coffee maker is not designed for "commercial" use like that. But there's very little that can go wrong inside of one of them, with maybe the exception of the heating element. That failing wouldn't result in a safety issue.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by mschuster91 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @04:36PM (#31185450)
> I mean, true, very few modern small appliances are just going to randomly burst into flame

Assuming that 10 dollar phone charger that Joe from Accounting got on Amazon or the airport store on the last vacation was not a dangerous counterfeit, that is. A sensible IT department will buy original chargers directly from the manufacturer or at the very least name brands such as Anker.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by a4isms on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @03:32PM (#31184685)
Dress codes have never had anything to do with treating people like children, they have to do with cultural adhesion.

We laugh at pictures of managers wearing near-identical suits and ties, and then we can look at a bunch of techies wearing near-identical tee shirts and hoodies and somehow not see a culture using clothes to signal belonging to the tribe.

There will always be tribal signals. It's clothes whether suits or plaid flannel, it's drinking bourbon or craft IPAs, it's playing golf or ultimate, it's being clean-shaven or bearded, it's driving a Tesla or a Caddy.

Some of us are not "joiners" and chafe at the idea of carefully selecting our clothes, grooming, music, possessions, and neighbourhood to signal that we want to fit in. But we should at least understand and empathize with why others may find these things comforting.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by rurp on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @04:40PM (#31185499)
I totally understand the reasons people want to dress a certain way and don't care at all if one coworker wants to wear a suit to work and another prefers a hoodie.

The issue is when people want to impose their dress code on others, especially for non-client/customer facing roles.

Putting a large emphasis on the dress code has downsides as well. The more focus people spend worrying about their attire and judging others, the less focus they have for more substantive matters. It's an easy crutch to dismiss someone for dressing "wrong", a crutch which plenty of lazy employees and managers are happy to latch onto.

I think de-emphasizing dress codes encourages a more productive workplace.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by brewdad on Thursday April 28, 2022 @02:07AM (#31189226)
Out of college, I interviewed at a finance firm where it was made clear to me that the junior people wore blue dress shirts and only the senior people wore white.

I didn't end up getting the job but I consider it a bullet dodged. It was like a white-collar McDonalds where you had to "earn" the white collar.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by a4isms on Thursday April 28, 2022 @01:45PM (#31195671)
It may amuse you to know that in some prisons, the guards wear dark-coloured shirts, and their supervisors wear white. The nickname “white shirt” is used for supervisors. Think of that the next time someone says their dress code is for managers to wear white shirts!

——

There is a historical reason for dark-coloured clothes being associated with people of lower social status/rank. In earlier times, poor fabrics didn’t dye bery well, so the only way to get an even tone was to use a dark colour.

To get a white fabric or pastel shade (like cream), you needed to start with better fabrics, higher-quality dyes, and have the dying done by experienced craftspeople.

The result was that light-coloured clothes became associated with wealth and prestige. This has carried through to this day, even if the rationale for it has been obsolete for a century or more.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by a4isms on Thursday April 28, 2022 @01:40PM (#31195596)
I personally favour not having a dress code. It’s just that I don’t dismiss dress codes as having no purpose. They have a purpose, it’s just not one I agree with.

In a related area, PayPal once no-hired an otherwise qualified engineer because when asked what they do for fun, the candidate replied “shoot hoops,” and PayPal’s cultural belief was that “No PayPal engineer shoots hoops.”

I would never work for a company with cultural filters like this, but I can understand their reasoning even if I deeply believe such workplaces are toxic monocultures with a side of racism.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by ask_b123 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @05:26PM (#31186021)
But at the same time, having a dress code could let people worry less about their attire and be able to focus on other matters.

Here I'm thinking specifically of school uniforms. It can be easier to be able to just wear the uniform rather than having to choose what to wear every day.

That said, I probably wouldn't like to work at a place with an overly stringent dress code.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by secludedrelish on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:23PM (#31187813)
> It can be easier to be able to just wear the uniform rather than having to choose what to wear every day.

If someone really has so much trouble deciding what to wear ... just get a bunch of gray t-shirts and sweatpants/blue jeans. You (or the parents for a young child) are free to make your own uniform. However, if someone feels the need to express themselves through clothing, they are free to do so.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by vineyardmike on Friday April 29, 2022 @04:23PM (#31210181)
I have 9 identical black tee shirts. I have 4 identical pairs of jeans. Roughly half the week I wear this. So easy to not think about it, and I’ve never had a coworker mention it to me, and only one even noticed it.

That said, if you’re not a school girl and it’s not the first week of work, I hope you’re not so focused on your clothes that you can’t focus enough on work.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by hyperman1 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @04:25PM (#31185295)
A long time ago, we had a meeting with a Head Architect. He would be accompanied by a server tech.

We sit in the meeting room, and 2 people enter. A distinctive gentlemen wearing a suit and tie, talking in a calm, authoritative voice. Next to him, a hyperactive tshirt wearing creature, think Adam from Mythbuster, talking excitedly about all sorts of tech, while making excessive arm gestures. My colleague whispers a joke comparing him to a monkey swinging from tree to tree. We both immediately knew who was the architect and who was the lowly tech.

Wrong, it turns out. Gentlemen spends his time in floor crawlspaces pulling cables between servers, and had dressed up for the meeting. Monkey Head Architect was just his manic normal self.

Both were incredibly competent, BTW.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by cipheredStones on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @04:36PM (#31185443)
Maybe I've just read too many stories like this, but when you said "We both immediately knew who was the architect" I assumed that you meant the t-shirt guy!
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by greedo on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @07:34PM (#31187123)
When I started at CurrentCompany, the dress code was described to me as "business casual." So after accepting the job offer, I emailed my contact in HR about what constituted "business casual." They gave vague instructions that basically said it was up to my boss. My boss didn't really care much except that we couldn't wear jeans or t-shirts, unless we were working in the datacenter.

Now we're midwest through and through. In the Before Times, the women tended to wear out of fashion clothing, while most of the men wore golf shirts and slacks. And if you wore something slightly out of the norm, people would sniff and tut-tut you.

Then COVID happened, and CurrentCompany went 100% remote. Then vaccines came out, cases dropped, and the whole RTO movement started up. And CurrentCompany realized that everyone was used to working in WhateverTheFuckWeWantToWear. And actually made a good decision. We could now wear jeans. Or shorts! OMG shorts! That was previously treated as if you were coming to work naked. And t-shirts were allowed. Sneakers/tennis shoes too! Anything to get people back in the office.

I'm 100% remote, but every now and then I need to pick up something, or PushLargeButtonInDataCenter, so I go visit those who are hybrid. And what do the majority wear? Jeans, golf shirts, out of fashion women's clothing, and very rarely, t-shirts.

It takes a long time to turn around a company that has been operating for a century.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by goodpoint on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @04:44PM (#31185548)
> we can look at a bunch of techies wearing near-identical tee shirts and hoodies and somehow not see a culture using clothes to signal belonging to the tribe.

No, casual dresscode allows for a much wider variety of clothing and goes in the opposite direction than "signal belonging to the tribe".

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by a4isms on Thursday April 28, 2022 @02:35PM (#31196421)
In some cultures, perhaps. But I assure you, my n=1 experience is with plenty of companies that switched from a typical jacket-and-tie dress code to business causual, and ended up with a “huge amount of variety:”

All of the men wore golf/polo shirts, khakis, and tasseled loafers, but some wore oxblood loafers while others wore black or even brown loafers. And some wore plain leather belts, others wore woven leather belts.

</sarcasm>

Some cultures value conformance, and even if the rule is “wear whatever you like, as long as it’s not jeans or tee shirts,” they’ll self-organize around an unwritten rule of what to wear.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by goodpoint on Thursday April 28, 2022 @03:02PM (#31196789)
I'm afraid that's more of a reflection of people's taste in clothing where you live than anything else.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by a4isms on Thursday April 28, 2022 @04:17PM (#31197676)
We'll have to disagree on this. What you call a bunch of people having the same taste in clothing, I call social signalling.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by goodpoint on Thursday April 28, 2022 @06:07PM (#31198810)
For n=1 that might be true.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by LadyCailin on Friday April 29, 2022 @08:17AM (#31204172)
How do you figure that? If there is no dress code, people can wear everything in the set you’re describing, plus the no dress code set.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by Zababa on Thursday April 28, 2022 @06:30AM (#31190863)
> We laugh at pictures of managers wearing near-identical suits and ties, and then we can look at a bunch of techies wearing near-identical tee shirts and hoodies and somehow not see a culture using clothes to signal belonging to the tribe.

Who is "we" here?

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by walrus01 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @06:19PM (#31186538)
one of the reasons for no small appliances is that some people will bring in a $45 portable 1500W electric space heater and put it under their desk, because they feel cold, and they have totally no idea of the problems and difference that adding a 1500W resistive electric load (vs like a 25W desk lamp) to the shared 15/20A 120VAC circuits in a cubicle farm can cause. those things are absolute fire hazards when used in the wrong environment.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by Spooky23 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @09:59PM (#31188003)
My employer sent a reminder of the guidelines on this topic recently.

Specific examples of prohibited items in office spaces include:

- Hotplates

- Hair dryers

- Cooking devices using an open flame, including propane, butane or wood.

- Car batteries and chargers.

There’s then a list of about 30 items that require a permit.

We were joking about the oddly specific nature of the items. I’m assuming some lunatic at one time had a camp chef or Weber Q in his cube cooking up some lunch.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by usefulcat on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @06:41PM (#31186735)
Bonus points if the person using the heater sits right next to the thermostat, causing the thermostat to think that the ambient air temp needs to be even lower..
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by Spooky23 on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @10:00PM (#31188014)
I worked with a guy who duct-taped glove warmers to the thermostat when they had it set to 70 in August.
Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by scioto on Thursday April 28, 2022 @10:24AM (#31192832)
Regarding dress codes, I worked at a three-letter company in the 90s that changed their dress code to allow us to wear shorts, as long as they were "tasteful." And that worked well at the start. But then a couple of the rebels, who were more than happy to be considered rebels, started wearing the moral equivalent of running shorts, which back in those days went above mid-thigh.

That lasted about a month, and then shorts were no longer allowed.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by bombcar on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @08:28PM (#31187479)
Part of it can be how you want the company to look to the clients - especially if the clients ever stop by.

When there’s no clients it can be a bit silly. But if one department has to toe the line all of them will.

Re:Be careful with that thing, it's a confidential coffee maker by dddddaviddddd on Wednesday April 27, 2022 @05:33PM (#31186079)
I enjoy working remotely where I have 100% control of my environment.