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Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by sandworm101 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @09:41AM (#31143904)
It is sunday morning. I'm at work (military). Part of that job is checking in with people at a half-dozen other locations who are also at work on a sunday morning. they just happen to all be hetero guys, which is not unusual in the military no matter the day. So I asked in our chat whether they had wives/girlfriends at home today. "No." "Nope." "My car is my GF" and "Rocking a peppi shirt under my uniform". These are single guys in their mid-twenties and thirties. They have jobs. Most are university-educated officers. They look good in their uniforms, especially with the medals. But they work sunday mornings because they don't have families and don't go out saturday nights. I worry about this trend.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by noisy_boy on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:01AM (#31144068)
Military marriages are double hard due to the nature of the job. Couple that with broken marriages being more like the norm, one can't blame if they don't want to risk their mental and financial stability.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by notacoward on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:18AM (#31144218)
Also...

It is Sunday morning. That means a lot of people are at church (and who is might be related to the demographic observation you've made). Is the message they're hearing one of hope or despair? Or are they not even listening? I'm not going to blame everything on religion, as tempting as that is, but for a non-trivial minority that might be part of who feels included or excluded and why they react as they do.

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by sandworm101 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:47AM (#31145176)
>> Is the message they're hearing one of hope or despair?

Despair. The average age at most churches now seems to be 80+, and those who are younger are there to support their older relatives. There is no chatting or mingling. Once the service is over it is time to begin the process of loading grandma back into the car. What I see of single people at church is the exhaustion common to all caregivers.

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by jonahx on Sunday April 24, 2022 @09:51AM (#31143990)
Interesting.

What do you attribute this to? Is it mostly just lifestyle choice? Or would most of them prefer to have a wife/gf but don't have one for whatever reason?

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by sandworm101 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:00AM (#31144057)
A stable job just doesn't compete anymore. Single heterosexual girls want guys with prospects and/or family money. Some of these guys are afraid of dating, afraid that something might go wrong that could impact their careers. Deployments have also changed. Soldiers don't date or even talk to local girls anymore. Interestingly, many of these guys are also stone-sober. Not recovering alcoholics. They just don't drink. They don't ever hook up at bars. That bar scene you see in every military movie never happens. They always seem to be on guard for situations that might hurt their career. COVID-related lockdowns haven't helped either.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by scruple on Sunday April 24, 2022 @12:38PM (#31145689)
> Interestingly, many of these guys are also stone-sober. Not recovering alcoholics. They just don't drink. They don't ever hook up at bars. That bar scene you see in every military movie never happens.

Is that true in the enlisted ranks, as well, I wonder? I believe that I saw you mentioned in another comment that you were talking about officers.

Anyway, I can tell you from experience that 20 years ago, around the bases I was stationed at, it was definitely still happening. We went out on the weekends, we partied hard, we hooked up, dated, some of them even got married, etc., with local girls from bars and clubs.

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by sandworm101 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @05:17PM (#31148416)
Moreso the officers, but its really all of the career people who are very careful about socializing. Those who intend to get out after a few years and try for better things in the civilian world, they tend to party hard.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by kzrdude on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:13AM (#31144175)
Do they have other social life, or just their job? I would suspect we've changed into being less social, not seeing friends either (replacing it with other entertainment or stuff to do).
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by Multicomp on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:08AM (#31144737)
I would argue we are just as social as before, but our social needs are able to be satisfied in the short-term by entertainment more than ever before, which dulls us from pursuing slow-burning-but-high-long-term-reward rewards like a stable relationship/marriage in favor of high-dopamine, low-risk, convenient, low-effort rewards like immersive video games and ever-more-enamoring leisure options.

In the 40s, what did a young man have as far as entertainment options? Books, theaters, cigars, racing his motor vehicle with friends, going to horse races, hanging out in bars, finding a public telephone box to call someone, etc.

In the 80s, 40 years later, you had all of the above, as well as basic 8-bit arcade machines (more social because of the high score aspect, going to the arcade with friends etc), then the advent of the IBM PC and cohorts (yes HN I'm skipping the PCs that beat IBM's product to market, hand wave with me please) which enabled computer games with interactive stories and explorations, as well as home media and basic, basic internet connectivity (BBS, Usenet etc.)

40 years later in 2020, we have all of the above plus social media, greater fidelity movies, television shows streamed on demand, the interactivity of the web has made itself available in our pockets in the form of smartphones, smart watches, and tablets, we have virtual reality headsets for even more immersive UX, and all of this is before said social media platforms and app makers started their algorithm iterations in earnest to increase engagement and maximize distraction/user attention time.

In the span of 80 years time we haven't gotten less social by nature, but the sheer amount of engaging dopamine hits we can get from entertainment has gone way up versus ye olde library book or baseball game, so the boredom factor that pushed us to hang out with friends and eventually pair up with someone special is much lessened.

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by kzrdude on Sunday April 24, 2022 @12:23PM (#31145555)
We mean the same thing for sure. I agree.

I think even media has evolved to become less useful for meeting people. Of course because of the technology shift from simultaneous viewing/broadcast to on-demand.

Watching movies at the cinema -> you can/want to go with friends. Watching netflix -> you can't watch with anyone except a close partner, because everyone has their own progress point to continue from in whatever series they are watching.

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by gernb on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:30AM (#31144979)
Could it be social life is harder now? I'm atheist so this is not for me but if the majority of people used to go to church they had at least one chance a week to meet people and not only just meet random people to but to get to know people over time.

I believe many relationship form after you get to know someone casually over time (classmates, church members) but many people, myself include, stopped going to classes after college and don't go to church.

That leaves at best dating sites but dating sites are super awkward because instead of getting to know someone first, like the examples above, you're instead in a situation where you're supposed to decide yes or no immediately ("do you want to date me?").

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by jdrc on Sunday April 24, 2022 @12:11PM (#31145433)
At 25 I guess they are not interested in a romantic life, overall. it doesn't happen automatically, it's a learned behavior that starts in teens
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by sandworm101 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @12:46PM (#31145760)
Oh, they are interested. Military guys get caught up in romance/blackmail scams all the time. It is a big deal when it comes to security clearances/background checks. They occasionally go out to bars, usually at the behest of their married friends. A single guy with a well-paid government job just isn't a winner these days. Our unit padre told me about a "singles" event organized amongst some local units/churches a few (10?) years ago. Total disaster. 4:1 male/female ratio and many of the women who showed up were not technically single but rather "going through a divorce".
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by imtringued on Sunday April 24, 2022 @03:00PM (#31147114)
You got that backwards. Teenagers are horny and want a "romantic" life in the bedroom. Once they get older they slowly lose that drive and finding a partner requires a huge amount of "activation energy".
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by burntoutfire on Monday April 25, 2022 @06:49AM (#31152779)
Selection bias. It's the kind of guys you'll find at work on a sunday morning, while the family men are at home with their families.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by ithkuil on Sunday April 24, 2022 @02:44PM (#31146936)
Could it be selection bias?
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by treis on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:09AM (#31144750)
Peppi shirt?
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by sandworm101 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:16AM (#31144820)
The peppi (sorry, "pepe") le frog meme has become associated with the alt-right generally but the incel community specifically. I doubt he meant that he was literally wearing one as that would be a huge problem in our military. I take his statement to mean that he understands the question and its implication.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by tester756 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @12:31PM (#31145627)
>The peppi (sorry, "pepe") le frog meme has become associated with the alt-right generally but the incel community specifically.

uh? by who and why? it's just meme that has various meanings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog#As_a_meme

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by bredren on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:01AM (#31144071)
Do they play video games?
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by sandworm101 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:14AM (#31144798)
Yes. They also use telephones, eat fast food, watch sports, drive cars and do all they other thing that 90+% of heterosexual males do. Blaming video games is just the latest intergenerational boogieman. 30 years ago it was too much television. 50 years ago it was too many comic books. In every generation there is a new media technology that the old blame for corrupting the young.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by knicholes on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:25AM (#31144291)
While an answer in the affirmative would tickle your confirmation bias activations, I'll counter with my anecdote that I play "video games" and have been happily married for 13 years and have two kids.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by dgfitz on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:44AM (#31144482)
3 kids here and I’m tickled pink that I just landed a PS5, married 9 years.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by sandworm101 on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:29AM (#31144978)
From the wives I've talked to, a husband who is at home playing video games is still at home, which is a significant step up from 'at the bar' or any number of escapist male activities that involve dads spending free time far away from their children.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by jdrc on Sunday April 24, 2022 @10:40AM (#31144435)
In any case it would be a symptom
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by ratww on Sunday April 24, 2022 @11:54AM (#31145245)
According to statistics websites, around 65% of adults in the US play video games, and around the same percentage of residences own gaming devices. At this rate, playing video games could be a "symptom" for virtually anything imaginable.

You probably mean stereotype.

Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by jdrc on Sunday April 24, 2022 @03:15PM (#31147255)
i mean a symptom of having too much time because of no family. dont think there is much stigma around gaming beyond old people
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by ratww on Monday April 25, 2022 @04:48AM (#31151967)
No, it's not really a symptom of too much time, considering this is an activity done by 65% of americans. If anything, people could be using video games to replace more more time-consuming hobbies like spending the night at the bar or building a motorcycle, which are better signals of spending a lot of free time away from the family.
Re:No one expects young men to do anything and they are resp... by jdrc on Monday April 25, 2022 @07:23AM (#31153006)
right i m not disagreeing with you, just saying that if they are gaming more than average, it would probably be a symptom of having more free time, not a cause of something