Many people crying about "slavery in Dubai" don't fully understand what slavery is and how Dubai works. What I am suggesting here, is that, perhaps, this notion is just a second-hand opinion you should consider changing your mind about. If you are open to it, that is.
However, it is also true that too many of those migrant workers are then treated atrociously, with little legal recourse, and with a casual chauvinism and racism that far exceeds what is often labeled "racism" in progressive societies.
And that is particularly grating given that those oil-rich countries could afford not only fancy buildings and museums, but also decent labour standards.
> Should Indian and Pakistani companies pay more to Indian and Pakistani workers they bring to Dubai?
Yes indeed.
> Who do you think should dictate how much more Indian companies should pay [...]?
As usual, the government of the country they operate in. In this case, the UAE governments. It would probably mean somewhat more expensive buildings for the UAE, and somewhat less profits for said Indian and Pakistani companies.
What should change in this scenario so you would stop calling this a "slavery"?
Many people who have enough leisure time to spend on HN and Reddit just don't understand the conditions many people grow up in. Not just India and Pakistan, but Philippines, Indonesia, and all the countries where you see economic migrants to any gulf country. Imagine growing up in unbelievable poverty with no educational opportunities or support, and with the external and internal pressure to financially support your siblings, parents, family and so they can survive and not just repeat the cycle you were born into.
It's an insane situation, and the only solution humans seem to have come up with is to encourage people with money buy stuff that's made by people who cannot afford that same stuff. In one country it's tall buildings, in another it's phones and t-shirts.
Global wealth inequality issues are certainly not easy to solve, but we don't just need to shrug and say "I guess that's the way the world needs to work" - there is an extreme amount of excess in western countries, we've got several people who have literally nothing better to do with their money than launch private rockets into space for PR so I don't think it's fair to say "it's near- slavery or t-shirts".
As the wealthiest nation on earth and the never-sated consumer that drives most of the world's economy America is in a position where it can demand better working conditions, it can say t-shirts at walmart can't reasonably cost 5$... but it is choosing not to do so. And, with all that said, the UAE in it's (hopefully now in the past) passport seizing days was still far worse.
Honestly, when I lived in UAE I had to submit my passport to a centralized system that held the passports of people who worked in that commercial area. To this day I don't know if I had to legally give them my passport or if my employer simply encouraged me to do it and presented it to me as as if I didn't have a choice.
A few weeks ago I had to take a sick family member to the emergency room here in the US at 3AM because they vomited blood. All medical resources online said it could not wait till morning as it could be internal bleeding. They were given an X-ray, an external exam by a nurse and a doctor, and told that it was a mild adverse reaction to some common medication and to swap to something else. Nothing to worry about. Time from leaving home to back home was 75 minutes, tops. Bill was $3500. My employer only offers HDHP options so a lot of that is on me once the insurance company and hospital are done playing their stupid games.
I think all employers in UAE are required to provide health-insurance. Prior to that, everybody there legally had governmental healthcare, but that has changed as medical costs have risen private insurance has become an option.
Thankfully I have insurance and I work in tech. It hits my budget and stings, I can afford to pay it. But if I didn't have health insurance and had family in my home country who depended on me sending money every month, that bill would have wrecked my life.
I realize passports versus medical benefits is not a sensible comparison at all.
Nobody seems to write stories about how governmental treatment of migrant workers in UAE has improved a lot over the last 2 decades. There's tons of room to improve, but it has gotten better.
These countries have been modernizing so fast that it’s really pointless to talk about how things were a couple of years ago.
2 years ago if someone said that this would happen people would probably have laughed at you https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/courts/2021/11/28/uaes-n...
But what do I know? Maybe because I’m in America I can’t call being forced to work and unable to leave slavery cause it’s a second hand opinion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No one confiscates passports, it is a nonsense. But what can I tell a person in America to make them doubt ideas they fixate to? Now go ahead and google up that one case when somebody did confiscate a passport a few decades ago and extrapolate this to all the millions of workers in UAE. You see what I mean?
Confiscate is probably too extreme a word, but when I lived in UAE many employers held onto (e.g. in the office safe) their employees passports. At some point I think the government realized this could be abused, and then there was an centralized office (at least in Jebel Ali, it was different in Abu Dhabi) where your employer asked you to have them hold your passport. To get your passport you had to get a letter from your employer saying it was okay for you to get it. Or, in my case, I left my job and got it back.
Personally, I hated the fact that I had to ask my employer for my passport when I got accepted into Grad school in the US and had to tell my employer I needed it for a few days to get a visa. I never questioned the legality of it though, and according to this it's not legal for employers to force you to hand over your passport.
https://gulfnews.com/uae/find-out-if-your-employer-is-author...
But like most legal things, when you are on a work visa you are scared of anything that might harm that. So you don't challenge or ask questions. It's pretty common for people on H1B to stay at an job they hate even though changing jobs on H1B is supposed to be easy. I certainly stayed at a bad job longer than I wanted to until my green card process hit a certain point. I think legally I could have changed earlier, but the company immigration attorney certainly gaslighted me on many things, and I was just too scared to take any risks with visa stuff. It's easy for a company to exploit that fear.
Admittedly this was 20 years ago and the government was taking steps to prevent it so I could believe the practice has mostly disappeared if given proof, but since we all know illegal behavior continues for a while after laws are enacted and enforced I’d still need to see that proof.
You’re argument about this not being real sounds a lot like when my countrymen claim our legal system doesn’t enslave people despite it being explicitly carved out in the constitution to allow it and prisoners being forced to work. It’s uncomfortable to face the truths but just claiming it’s the same in the face of evidence doesn’t help
Somebody with an agenda told you "Dubai slavery" long time ago and it is now easier for you to follow the narrative formed in your head. I get it, but the reality is different.
I keep finding facts that support this view because the facts are still there. Why are you acting like this isn’t real at all? I even asked for some evidence that this is no longer occurring which I could believe given the UAE government has taken steps to combat it, but you just want to call people flat earthers.
At this point the only one who seems to have an agenda is you and your attempts to shut down any conversation around the topic
I'm drawing the line at the confiscated passports, threat of jail and terrible living conditions - if you can't safely leave your work, you're a slave. It doesn't matter what the alternative at your home is.
I reject the premise that we live in a world of unregulated capitalism where free-markets force us all to engage in a race to the bottom when it comes to working conditions, and the modern world also rejects that with a plethora of examples: how can US workers who demand trivial things like sane working hours and health care possibly compete with people overseas who can do the same work while being paid peanuts - it's because we as a society can demand that. The people of the UAE could similarly demand that labourers be paid better and receive better treatment - it's not an unavoidable economic outcome that near slavery exists, it's a choice.
How would you justify this? And what if I ask you to apply the same logic to H1B?
UAE is doing more to improve the lives of these people than the West ever has, even if it doesn’t look all that pretty. It’s very unfortunate that photos of denied visa applications will never evoke the same response.
It is illegal to do this, enforcement is pretty aggressive.
As to denial of visas? At least the UAE offers these people a chance at a better life, Western countries give them nothing. A slight QOL improvement is much better than none.
To get a low-skilled work visa in Dubai you have to sit through an hour long lecture explaining these rights, including what to do if your employer takes your passport.
You are advised to not give your passport to your employer except to have your visa stamped, and then immediately demand it back.
This country is modernizing very rapidly, things that were true 5 years ago are often not true anymore.
You go to prison for this in Dubai.
> have their password taken away
I suppose you mean “passport”. This is also illegal, government has been cracking down on this for years. The MOHRE hotline for these issues is advertised everywhere, it only takes a quick call and the police will come recover your passport.
But yeah, I guess it’s pointless to try and have a conversation with someone engaging as dishonestly as you.
I obviously don’t mean that violence or rape are okay, and it’s really shitty of you to suggest that. What next? Will you accuse me of molesting children too?
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=uae+son...
https://gulfnews.com/uae/sonapur-welcome-to-the-dark-side-1....