I've been hosing out my Defenders and wading them above the door seals for years and there's no significant rust yet. They have rubber floor mats instead of upholstery. But they are maintained professionally.

You won’t find it until your foot goes through something or something falls off. I had a 1990 defender 90 which was 8 years old and the bulkhead was invisibly rotten in various places. That got very expensive very quickly. A friend has a more modern 110 that’s only 6 years old and has the same problem.

This is not an issue in some areas and dry climates as a rule but in the UK it sucks owning one.

I don’t own one now. I drive a little French go cart then I use my legs for off road. They last longer, don’t go rusty and run on dried fruit and sandwiches.

This is why I laugh when I see 90's era defenders selling for $80k in the states.

Are you Remi Gaillard?

I disclaim all responsibility for chucking bananas out of my French go cart

Aren't most parts of land rover bodies aluminum?

https://www.thrillist.com/cars/9-things-you-didn-t-know-abou...

Yeah. They chassis and bulkhead is made of steel though. This tends to rust very quickly when bonded to aluminium parts.

> This tends to rust very quickly when bonded to aluminium parts

Isn’t it the other way around? Aluminium has a lower reduction potential than iron, so the aluminium should be the first to go. Even lower than zinc, which uses the same mechanism in sacrificial anodes and galvanisation.

I once had the idea of attaching “sacrificing cathodes” made of iron to aluminium beverage cans to make them go away faster when discarded in the environment, but that just causes more problems than it solves, so it’s better stick with container deposit schemes.

That's a super interesting thought, the sacrificial anode thing to break down cans faster. If only there was a mechanism like that we could harness to accelerate the breakdown on plastics.

If memory serves - I have never put it to the test - my HZJ78 Land Cruiser owner's manual says wading depth is 700mm (doors closed), 875mm (doors open) - presumably the added depth with doors open is down to the reduced buoyancy.

Part of me really wants to try it out once, though.

I think the new Defender is 900mm doors closed, which is pretty deep!

A lot of Landrovers used in off roady places around the world are ex-army models. Maybe they were more water tolerantly trimmed. E.g. at one point you could buy Landrover Rover Wolf fairly cheap I think

Not really. The wolfs suck. 24v electrics and stripped bare of everything even remotely nice. And yes they go rusty too. They mostly tend to survive in desert climates longer as they are surrounded by desiccants and clever engineers who can weld things that fell off back on again.

Stripped bare is a feature. Less shit that can go wrong.

> Stripped bare is a feature. Less shit that can go wrong.

I don't understand this attitude. Stripped bare also means you have less shit that can go right. Don't just do a cost analysis, do a cost/benefit analysis.

Better cab ergonomics leads to less driver fatigue, which leads to less accidents and therefore less downtime. Sometimes it actually pays off to have a higher maintenance workload, especially since most of it is planned downtime, or features that don't have fixed urgently. And sometimes this idea of radical simplicity only shifts maintenance workload from one component to another. One example that gets a lot of pushback in US trucking is steering trailer axles. They are indeed more "shit that can go wrong", but not having them and constantly dragging your tires means you're going to have to spend more time changing and re-treading your tires. Look at the whole system, not just one feature in isolation.

> Don't just do a cost analysis, do a cost/benefit analysis.

This is exactly why I have reached the conclusion that I have. The extras are not a considerable enough benefit in situations that I find myself in. Doing industrial work doesn't lead to the benefit of the extras.

It may be that those of us see this don't overvalue optional extras that have significantly less practical value than the marketing suggests.

Industrial work is precisely where the extras start to really matter.

In a truck used purely for recreation the stakes are pretty low. Being mildly uncomfortable to and from your fishing trip isn't realistically going to cost you anything financially, and your unpleasant memories of the drive will soon fade in favor of the pleasant memories of the fishing. And even if you are hauling colossal boat on a big multi-axle trailer, the tires are probably going to go bad from age long before you need to replace them due to wear.

But if you're maintaining a big fleet of work vehicles, the stakes are suddenly a lot higher, because everything you do is going to affect your bottom line. Poor cab ergonomics will affect people's entire workdays and workweeks, and will cost you in higher employee turnover, and higher delay, rework and accident rates. And fuel, tires and other wear items are also going to be huge items on your operating budget, so it would be foolish not to try to see what extras you can find to mitigate them.

I'd love to see the studies supporting this evidence, however I imagine if it exists its locked up behind proprietary doors.

This. I don't get the tendency to want an ultra-capable off-road vehicle and then kit it out like a luxury roadster with a bunch of "tech" that is going to break in the first water crossing.

Worked on a farm one time where one of the work trucks was literally a Ford F350 King Ranch edition. Super powerful vehicle, but the wood trim and leather seats were no help when you had just been on your hands and knees in mud and diesel fuel...

Creature comforts are great for family/touring cars, but they are a liability in extreme terrain.

Having worked in "extreme terrain" conditions for much of my adult life, and now work my own farm, I completely disagree. You don't want to be spending significant portions of your day in a "stripped bare" platform. Maybe thats ok for a couple of hours rock crawling twice a month (not that I would call that extreme terrain!), but not for any actual utility.

Why is this, what features give you value ?

In no particular order, but equipment I recognise I use frequently. Probably missing a bunch of other stuff.

  - Cab heating (keep warm when cold)
  - engine block heater (start vehicle below -25C)
  - windscreen wipers (clear snow/dust from windows)
  - demister/deicer (quickly clear fog/ice from windows)
  - air suspension seats (stop spine popping out of butt)
  - Cab air-conditioning (keep cool when hot)
  - cab air filtration (reduce chance of nasty lung conditions / death)
  - power-steering (be able to turn without arms falling off)
  - wet-braking (nice to have breaks when you need them)
  - a handbrake that works (safely keep vehicle running while unmanned)
  - multiple lockable diffs (you WILL get stuck in mud without these)
  - multiple range gearing (go super slow without stalling and also go fast enough on highway)
  - quick-reverse (switch from forwards to backwards quickly)
  - reversing/positioning cameras (so you dont hit stuff you dont want to hit, and do hit stuff you want to hit)
  - bluetooth entertainment system (podcasts, audiobooks)
  - soundproofing (soooo loud otherwise)
  - winch (get unstuck without waiting for help)
  - CTIS (save about 20 mins a day solely adjusting tyre pressure from field/road)

Im sure you can do without a bunch of that, but you will just be miserable for much of the year (or you dont actually spend much time operating).

I guess you could add safety equipment to that as well. Rollcage, multi-point harness, etc. Theres also the obvious stuff that you just need to do the job - tow hitches, 3-pt mounts, PTOs, etc.

For example air conditioning prevents heat exhaustion.

Heated and massaging seats, auto deploying running boards and tailgate step for your aching back

360 degree camera for maneuvering in tight spaces

110V outlet for charging tools

Sunroof you can stick your head out of to get a higher vantage point

None of these have I ever needed in my previous life as a country boy.

Most of my tooling was petroleum, and I had no back problems. I will be the first to admit that maneuvers in tight spaces was definitely a learn by fire trial.

I have a 2004 Discovery 3 which was specced in the highest possible trim at the time, I've been driving it off road for nearly 2 decades now and it's still absolutely fine. The only feature on it which is actually broken is the driver seat heating. Everything else, including the armrest fridge, works fine. 210k miles, no major repairs with the engine(4.4L V8 petrol). I had to get the chassis rustproofed few years back and the air suspension compressor replaced twice, but that's about it when it comes to "big" repairs.

My point is - I'd absolutely buy another highly specced, full of tech vehicle for offroading. Disco 3s were meant to be "catastrophic" in terms of electrical problems but I didn't really have many issues with mine. The only catastrophic thing about it is the insane fuel consumption(my long term average is 15L/100km, which actually at the current fuel prices is financially ruinous)