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Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by kappuchino on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:47PM (#30926635)
I DISAGREE. For this reason: I was given antipressants by my (former) doctor for a moderate anxiety "phase". It was escitalopram. And it did well for me - within a day! When it came to end the medication, I was told to just stop taking it. Which I did. But I should not have - I had anxietiy "echoes" over the following YEAR, really weird stuff. So I started to read about the medication: Studies have shown the longer you take time to reduce it in steps (like 10% of the former dose) the better is the time after. But since this is burdensome, its rarely suggested and also people need to "cut" pills to have the exact dose for their reduction.

My current OPINION is: Until you have read studies and got some plausible experiences from people with the same medication, one doctor alone isn't a good source for taking medication.

I will only take medication in the future if life wouldn't managable without, but not for issues that just take time.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:58PM (#30926710)
But as grandparent suggests - talking to a forum full of strangers is not doing research.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by jnwatson on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:05PM (#30927179)
No, but it does give avenues to research.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by SkyPuncher on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:27PM (#30927360)
I just want to echo the other commenter. You had a completely incompetent prescriber.

Tapering SSRIs is the normal unless a provider has alternative indication it shouldn't be done.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by inter_netuser on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:03PM (#30926742)
You had an incompetent prescriber.

Tapering doses for all sorts of medications are routinely done, and any pharmacy can handle such an rx. If they can't - you don't want to go to such a pharmacy anyway.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by aaaaaaaaata on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @12:42AM (#30928561)
Easy to say when you're in a major city/within the 100 mile border zone.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by inter_netuser on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @07:33PM (#30938778)
Unfortunately, you often have to travel at times to find good talent/expertise.

Some people move permanently, in order to obtain medical care. Sometimes, to another country.

Most compounding pharmacies will ship, and most physicians will only require one visit in person in 12 months.

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Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by grp000 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:06PM (#30927185)
Doctors aren't infallible, and most are probably not reading research papers. That's aside from the fact that psychiatric drugs aren't even that well understood by how they actually work. If you understand basic stats and read white papers on drug efficacy that are looking for correlations with your personal attributes, that's probably really useful info to know, and much more in depth research than your doctor will be doing for you.

That's not to even mention the disgusting influence that the drug industry has on psychiatry. My own doctor prescribed Cymbalta to me for mild anxiety and told me it was completely safe and effective, which it was not. Their (doctor's) basis for prescribing those meds was based on their own experience with a small sample of patients, and I imagine what the drug company told them/gave their own first party literature for. Had I actually looked into studies, I would have seen that the risk was nontrivial, there are bad actors motivated by greed, the mechanism of action is not known, and that there are doctors with limited time and effort per patient.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by Strom on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:23PM (#30927317)
It's funny isn't it. Nobody goes around threads screaming DON'T LISTEN TO POLITICAL ADVICE, go talk to your local POLITICAL PROFESSIONAL. Yet it is not that different. The best local politicians will obviously have amazing insight. On the flip side, just like with local politicans, most local medical professionals will just be following flow charts that they vaguely remember and won't actually give you any personalized or up-to-date insight.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by TameAntelope on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:23PM (#30927321)
So you think, "Don't take medical advice from strangers on the Internet" (what I said) is equivalent to, "Don't obtain any second opinions or question you doctor" (what you seem to think I said)?
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by grp000 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:18PM (#30927737)
That's not what you said at all.

What you have down is this: "so we're at a point in the Internet where random people feel confident enough to tell others to disregard professional medical advice in favor of their own "research""

Which is in response to a post saying that they disagree with another parent who says that none of these anecdotal experiences or advice given by other posters should be read.

Regardless, I think it's important for people to trust their own judgement, and weigh anecdotal experiences and advice from regular people, with the understanding that all advice comes from a certain context.

That being said, after the fact of having such a bad personal experience and afterwards seeing that actual academic literature shows such a big rift with what I was told by a licensed professional with many years of experience, I have to advocate, especially in the field of psychiatry, to make one's own best judgement, regardless of whether a doctor agrees or not, and only give them the authority of what they can logically provide as an argument for why you should follow a certain treatment.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by TameAntelope on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @01:40AM (#30928833)
You're playing with people's lives when you give them medical advice without being qualified to do so.

If you trust a stranger's anecdotes on the Internet over your doctor (or even your own massively undereducated and biased interpretation of the situation), you are a fool, full stop. Unfortunately, sometimes the very disease you have causes you to make foolish decisions.

The only sane answer here is to get help from another medical professional. Any other option is exceedingly stupid.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by grp000 on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @02:49AM (#30929168)
You didn't even read what I wrote: "Regardless, I think it's important for people to trust their own judgement, and weigh anecdotal experiences and advice from regular people, with the understanding that all advice comes from a certain context."
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by TameAntelope on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @08:42AM (#30931349)
Yes, that advice is both wrong and wildly irresponsible to give.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by selcuka on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @12:34AM (#30928523)
Not OP. Fair point, but also "people with the same medication" is not the same as "strangers on the Internet".
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by TameAntelope on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @01:52AM (#30928885)
Yes they are. It's a potentially fatal mistake to think otherwise.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by selcuka on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @10:57PM (#30940140)
By your logic an anonymous alcoholics meeting is the same as "getting addiction advice from random strangers".
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by seabird on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @11:04PM (#30928020)
Your GP is not some superhuman that clocks out and parks their ass on the computer for 8+ hours every day to research the specific details of the tens or hundreds of treatments available for any given condition they may run into.

The person you're replying to isn't even saying that you should never trust a doctor. They're saying that doctors are not infallible, and that doing some research by yourself and bringing any questions to your doctor might be a good idea. At a pretty fundamental level, that's one of the primary responsibilities of a doctor.

This is the same thing as "trusting science". If you are "trusting science" in the sense that a lot of people are referring to when they say that, you are missing the point!

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by hatmatrix on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:50PM (#30927068)
Was that the message here? What I got was that while you should consult a medical doctor, their decision shouldn't the be-all and end-all on the subject and maybe you shouldn't hesitate to find a second (medical) opinion.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by vorpalhex on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:08PM (#30927198)
They're a doctor, not a deity. You can question them, get second opinions, read research and think critically.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by derevaunseraun on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:54PM (#30927970)
Telling someone to do their own research and decide for themselves what's best != telling people to ALWAYS disregard what they are told to do by a professional

If the research/gut feeling disagrees with what the doctor is saying it raises additional questions. To me it sounds like you're telling people to blindly follow a doctor's advice. They definitely shouldn't disregard it, but blind faith is just as stupid

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by MisterMower on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:41PM (#30927893)
The past two years opened a ton of eyes regarding the fallibility of the medical community.

Turns out most doctors prescribe what is recommended by the professional organization they’re a member or the CDC.

I can’t count the number of times I’ve been at my daughter’s pediatrician’s office and the doctor either hands me a print out of the CDC website or actively googles something in front of me during a visit.

Sometimes I’ll ask her “what do you think about…” and she’ll parrot back “well the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends…”

And guess what? These clowns are fine with it. They jump through ridiculous hoops in school to get cushy high paying jobs, and their professional organizations work very hard to keep any competition out.

My brother just got prescribed anti-depressants this week. All the doctor did was give him the standard DSM “are you depressed” test. His score was barely on the depressed spectrum and so the doctor gave the standard dose. “See you a month from now, call me if you feel like killing yourself.”

No probing questions about why he might be depressed. No questions about past his past experiences with seasonal depression in Michigan where he lives. No other alternative remedies. Just a prescription, next patient please.

These doctors are just very highly credentialed monkies. They have vast knowledge of when to prescribe what and at the recommended dose. But ask them any kind of thought provoking question and inevitably you’ll get “the [trade organization I belong to] recommends…”

When my wife was in labor with my firstborn, the doctor and I were hanging out chatting. I asked him what the machine that printed out the intensity of her contractions was measuring. I kid you not: “well… it measures… it’s like how tight her uterus is… like, the intensity of her contractions.” No doc, what physical phenomenon is it measuring. It sits on her belly. What is it doing? Crickets. Guy couldn’t even tell me what the units were on the chart.

Try it sometime. Ask them a knowledge check question. Something simple, like “why do you administer this vaccine at four months old instead of, say, six months old?” or “what do these SSRIs do to my brain chemistry that helps manage my depression symptoms?” Watch them squirm.

Almost as interesting is the fact that none of them have ever admitted “you know, that’s a great question, I’m not sure, let me go research it and get back with you,” a completely valid answer. The hubris among these folks is something.

I’ll warn you though, if you try this you’re going to lose a lot respect for these medical “professionals”, I guarantee it.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by hsn915 on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @02:28AM (#30929050)
I used to think the software industry was broken because seeing from the inside it's obvious that the vast majority of programmers have no idea what they are doing.

Then as I looked at the rest of the world, it started to become clear to me that all industries are broken in the same way. Medicine is no exception.

> My brother just got prescribed anti-depressants this week. All the doctor did was give him the standard DSM “are you depressed” test. His score was barely on the depressed spectrum and so the doctor gave the standard dose. “See you a month from now, call me if you feel like killing yourself.”

> No probing questions about why he might be depressed. No questions about past his past experiences with seasonal depression in Michigan where he lives. No other alternative remedies. Just a prescription, next patient please.

That's really sickening.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by TameAntelope on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @02:01AM (#30928929)
The point is not that medical professionals have all the answers, the point is they have more answers than you do, and have better experience and resources available to them to seek answers they do not currently have.

Individual medical professionals making mistakes does not give you the excuse to ignore their vastly superior skills at handling medical situations.

If you don't like your doctor, find another one, do not attempt treatment on your own. If you do so, you are putting the people you love and care about in incredible danger, to the point where you may have your children taken away from you, and rightly so.

It is the height of stupidity to think you know better than the entire medical profession on any topic, no matter how much you've researched said topic.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by lostdog on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @05:11PM (#30937463)
In my family, both doctors and random googling have a similar batting average for certain conditions.

Some day you will have a challenging health condition and a mediocre doctor. When that happens, I hope you do not feel overly embarrassed by the comments you've made in this thread.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by tucaz on Friday April 08, 2022 @12:38AM (#30953373)
This is beautiful and very much on point.
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by hsn915 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:23PM (#30927325)
You literally want HN to censor people like big tech social media companies do?
Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by bawolff on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @10:11PM (#30927683)
What is the point of downvoting if not to downvote?
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Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by hsn915 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @09:31PM (#30927384)
> my free speech to advocate he not be allowed to do so here.

I would like to advocate that you should not be allowed to advocate for censoring people.

Therefore, I have flagged your comment.

Re:Ask HN: Beating depression with or without anti-depressants? by TameAntelope on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @01:59AM (#30928923)
If the HN community wants to censor my comment, they're perfectly free to, and I personally don't mind; that's why the feature is there, after all.