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Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by nimithryn on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:19PM (#30925815)
The writing is beautiful, but I think Neuromancer has failed to capture a modern audience due to some of the stylistic choices Gibson makes (I’m not necessarily arguing they are bad decisions - I personally enjoyed the style - although I think one could argue that).

For instance, Gibson frequently skips exposition, and he delivers the narrative with a disconnected, stream-of-consciousness feel that is meant to evoke the sense of disconnection when “channel-hopping” or digging through large amounts of information on the internet. Combined with the frenetic pace of the story it can be confusing if the reader isn’t paying close attention. I’ll add that this was also Gibson’s first novel.

Compare to Snow Crash, which has a pulpier writing style (it was original envisioned as a graphic novel) or even The Matrix, which has a tight narrative. Those are more accessible to a mainstream audience.

Edit: formatting

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by bpiche on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:28PM (#30925904)
I have to disagree, Snow Crash is interminably long, like most of Stephenson's books. Neuromancer's whole Ocean's 11 Straylight run job is a very clean story.

edit: A lot of Gibson's stream of consciousness writing style can be attributed to the effect of beat writers like Burroughs on him. It's unique but it's also an intentional stylistic decision. Not really an attempt to capture the aesthetics of logging into the net. And as you may know, Snow Crash may seem pulpier but Gibson grew up on pulp like Edgar Rice Burroughs and it affected his work a bit.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by nimithryn on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:54PM (#30926173)
To each his own, but I don’t think the length of the book has anything to do with the clarity of the narrative. And I’m definitely not arguing that Stephenson writes novels that are less confusing than Gibson in general (I liked Anathem! But cmon) I’m just arguing that the style in Snow Crash spells out what’s going on more literally than in Neuromancer.
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by bpiche on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:21PM (#30926428)
I'm not using this reply to agree or disagree, I just want to share this piece of internet archeology with you. If you're interested in comparing and contrasting great cyberpunk authors, the esteemed Rudy Rucker himself did this in an interview with punk-cyber legend R U Sirius (of R U A Cyberpunk? meme fame) on his blog back in the day https://www.acceler8or.com/2012/02/cyberpunk-sfmathematics-l...
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by nimithryn on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @12:46AM (#30928586)
The comparison with the Beats is interesting (I know next to nothing about the Beats). Thanks for sharing!
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by d13 on Thursday April 07, 2022 @07:27AM (#30943099)
Yes, Gibson came out of 60’s counter culture and was his style is a kind of like a pop version of William Burroughs - a writer who, in the late 70s and early 80s had an enormous and overreaching influence on younger writers.

As an interesting aside, There’s an old Canadian documentary film about Rochdale and the hippie scene in Toronto, shot around 1970, that, by pure chance, features a very young William Gibson well before he had published anything - I stumbled across this by chance in the York University film archives about 30 years ago - no idea if it’s available anywhere online and may no longer exist anymore.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by smiley1437 on Friday April 08, 2022 @07:52PM (#30963882)
I remember having just read Neuromancer and in the same month happened to watch that exact documentary with Gibson a nobody wandering around in Toronto
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:41PM (#30926579)
The Peripheral is even more spare. I didn't struggle with his other books, but the minimalism started getting a little too much there.

It allows him to disguise a literal plot device, which is a nice twist. But overall I thought it was heavy going compared to the Neuromancer trilogy.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by pmoriarty on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:20PM (#30926424)
I found Snow Crash to be really childish, and not even in the same league as Neuromancer.

I read Neuromancer originally in 1984 and again a few years ago, and for me it still holds up. It's not the greatest book or anything, and I found Count Zero to be much better, but apart from those two books I've yet to read anything else cyberpunkish that comes even remotely close.

Before someone mentions Greg Egan or Vernor Vinge, as they have elsewhere in the thread, I read a lot by these authors and didn't like them either. Way too dry, boring, and unimaginative for me. I know some people love them, but they're just not for me.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by walrus01 on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:23PM (#30926446)
Snow Crash is in many places meant to be intentionally silly and absurdist as an extrapolated, exaggerated satire on contemporary American lifestyle at the time it was written, such as in the users manual for the "Reason" railgun
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by jhbadger on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @09:43AM (#30931852)
And it is pretty obviously referring to 1992 current events. To modern readers L. Bob Rife is just a funny villain, but he was obviously a parody of 1992 outsider US Presidential Candidate H. Ross Perot.
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by nonesuchluck on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @10:26AM (#30932322)
Oh. To this modern reader, L. Bob Rife was just an obvious parody of L. Ron Hubbard.

But he wasn't a Texan, so I suppose I see your angle. Interesting bit of flavor.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by urthor on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:50PM (#30926657)
Snow Crash is childish, that's why it's more successful.

Snow Crash is built around an airport novel style narrative.

Neuromancer has a far more literary tone, and is trickier to digest.

That's the entire reason Snow Crash is cited. Airport novel readership is far more widespread.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by JackFr on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @09:21AM (#30931643)
To each his own, I suppose.

I found Neuromancer and and Count Zero eminently forgettable. I never read Snow Crash, so I can't really speak to it though I've read a half dozen of Neal Stephenson's other novels, all of which I found rich with ideas. While I appreciate the literary style, I honestly can't remember the plot of either Neuromancer or Count Zero.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by barry-cotter on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @11:06PM (#30928032)
Dry and boring I can imagine people calling Egan or Vinge but unimaginative? They both throw off ideas like confetti.
Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by pmoriarty on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @11:47PM (#30928258)
Here's an example I remember from some Vinge novel ("A Fire Upon the Deep" maybe) I read decades ago: some ancient species/entities were supposed to have transcended a long time ago. What did that transcendence consist of? Where did they go? What's their life like after transcendence? Vinge gives the reader nothing. I call that a failure of the imagination.

Yes, I get that the post-singularity world is supposed to unpredictable/unimaginable in principle... but it's the author's job to imagine it anyway, else why am I even bothering to read his books on the singularity? If he doesn't/can't imagine it, I judge it a failure and a disappointment.

I don't remember details about Egan's work, except that nothing in it seemed particularly interesting and nothing wowed me... hence I really can't remember much about it except the premises of some of his novels, like Permutation City.

This is contrary to works by authors like Gibson, Herbert, and Dick, for instance, which I'll never forget. They're just leagues ahead of lesser authors like Vinge and Egan.

Re:The Influence of Neuromancer on Cyberpunk by VintageCool on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @02:24AM (#30929031)
Well, he doesn't know. Most of Vinge's works were about getting close to the Singularity without crossing over, because he expected that technology and society would change massively and unpredictably at that time.

The point of introducing the fantasy element of the Zones of Thought was to allow Vinge to write a FTL space opera without having to deal with post-Singularity speculation.

When species transcended, they left the Beyond and went into the Transcend.