I bought my last car (an Audi) at Carmax. Got within spitting distance of the price I wanted from their list price. A week later, they listed the same car in a higher trim. Carmax swapped the cars; I just paid the difference. It was like buying a TV at Best Buy. But with a better return policy.

I don't think you have to buy a Muskmobile to avoid rapacious dealers.

Walk into a dealer and say "I will pay that price on the window, but on the condition you won't even try to upsell me in F&I." Aside from a minority of shady dealers, most regular car dealers will smile sweetly and tell you where to sign and who to make out the check to.

Tesla just formalizes this by forbidding negotiation. Some people like that. But historically people like to negotiate on big purchases. It's a game, how close to invoice can you get, etc. Can't really have it both ways.

And frankly, most people like to pick from inventory, too, and have options. Tesla doesn't carry inventory nor do they really have much in the way of options. They're catering to a niche. People who are okay with a limited selection and are willing to wait.

>Walk into a dealer and say "I will pay that price on the window, but on the condition you won't even try to upsell me in F&I." Aside from a minority of shady dealers, most regular car dealers will smile sweetly and tell you where to sign and who to make out the check to.

Every dealership I've been to will nod their head then precede to upsell you in F&I. They'll make sure you don't actually get to F&I until you've been their for 5 hours where you're so tired, hungry, and agitated you just want to gtfo with your car. That's not to mention todays market where every dealer acts like and prices like its a privilege to be able to pay them $50,000+ for a vehicle.

I find that if you play no games and you are completely honest about your intentions, they'll just do what you want. If they start to act a little shady, just get up and head for the door. You'd be surprised how quickly the sales guy (or F&I, same difference) gets the picture. You don't let a sticker price customer walk over some missed upsells. Source: I work for a company that writes software for dealers, I pick up a lot of insider knowledge along the way, including strategy. And I've bought like 30 cars over my life. These days I just get a price by email and then walk in to grab the keys. I rarely have to stand up and walk towards the door, because I know who the shitty dealers are in the area and I avoid them. Most of the major manufacturer dealers aren't particularly shady.

where are you people buying your cars?

(setting aside the pandemic)

you always want to do your research before ever going to a dealer, any dealer. after that you go and see the car + test drive it.

after that you talk $$$. if you drag this process for more than 30-40 min or try stupid stuff, as a customer I will get up and walk. Also for my last car the dealer had a guy that was assigned specifically for internet sales and I actually saw the car in person + worked out all the details through email.

again, as a customer (minus the pandemic shiftshow which will eventually die down) you have the power to decide what is and what is not acceptable.

Start a stopwatch when you sit down. Tell them they have 15 minutes to complete the sale or you walk. They can save time by discarding the upsells you're going to decline.

> Start a stopwatch when you sit down

In this car market they’d be crazy to give up a car without upselling, given manufacturers’ prohibitions on raising prices.

That's a fallacy. It's kinda like thinking a real estate agent is always going to get you the best price. No, he's going to get whatever results in a guaranteed sale right now. Dealers are no different. Sure, they'll sell the car to someone else if you walk. But you're right there, paying the price they asked for. They're not going to quibble over F&I.

You know you don't have to finance a car with a dealer loan, right?

Just walk away.

That is such a naive take. If you promise to pay MSRP they’re going to do everything possible to take you as a mark. No honor amongst thieves.

Buy a Tesla.

LOL. I work with dealers as part of my job. They're just going to sell you what you want. The easiest marks are the folks who think they know how to negotiate. If you are straightforward and you follow through, they aren't going to screw around trying to get another few bucks, they're going to take the sale.

Don't just go make Elon richer.