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Re:Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize by toomuchtodo on Friday April 01, 2022 @02:18PM (#30881528)
Convincing staunch anti union folks that a union would help them is like trying to convince a Southern Baptist god doesn't exist. You don't bother, you organize folks who recognize the benefit and understand the tradeoffs, people who don't think of them as individual exceptionalists.

Wanting better pay and benefits for workers is an agenda, and if making that clear isn't enough (even after accounting for a cons of collective bargaining, union costs, etc), ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Re:Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize by dymk on Friday April 01, 2022 @02:25PM (#30881613)
You'd be mistaken to think I'm some staunch anti-union person - I think it's great that these warehouse workers unionized! I think the benefits far outweigh the cons for them.

Difference between them and myself is, we work completely different jobs, in completely different markets, with completely different incentives.

Re:Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize by toomuchtodo on Friday April 01, 2022 @02:36PM (#30881754)
But it's not just about yourself; it's about your colleagues and others in the same industry. Your incentives are not their incentives, and their work experience is not your work experience. Important points to remember imho about why people might desire collective bargaining in order to have better pay and working conditions. Setting pay aside for a moment (which is admittedly a complex topic in this context), not everyone has the ability, agency, or leverage to obtain better working conditions (without collective bargaining).
Re:Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize by changoplatanero on Friday April 01, 2022 @02:36PM (#30881758)
I wouldn't mind for my pro-union co-workers to form a union but the part I hate is that they have the power to force me to pay their organization which I don't support and they also have the power to negotiate my employment contract without my consent.
Re:Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize by jimbob45 on Friday April 01, 2022 @02:47PM (#30881877)
“They’re too stupid to know what they want so I have to lie about facts to them.”

Why is that an acceptable strategy for your side but not the other side? Could it be that you might both have valid viewpoints?

Re:Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize by toomuchtodo on Friday April 01, 2022 @04:48PM (#30883148)
You misunderstand my comment perhaps, my apologies if I poorly communicated the idea. I never suggested lying to staunch anti union folks, but to ignore them out of effort efficiency. If they believe their viewpoint is valid, the effort to persuade is better spent elsewhere. Majorities win, simple as that (as demonstrated by this unionization vote, as well as those ongoing at Starbucks locations).