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Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by denton-scratch on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @06:26AM (#30840818)
Maybe because only Debian Developers can vote; the rest of us have no vote, so effectively the DDs are a sort of "college of electors", and it seems reasonable to me that users should at least have visibility into how the electors are voting.

I mean, I think it's OK that only DDs get to vote; but the Debian Project is supposed to be transparent, so I'd like to be able to find out how people voted.

Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by TazeTSchnitzel on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @06:39AM (#30840896)
Consider that elected representatives' votes are also, as a rule, not secret.
Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by randomcarbloke on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @06:50AM (#30840965)
do we elect Debian developers?
Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by gspr on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @07:23AM (#30841159)
Exactly. I view DDs more as the citizens of a democracy, rather than the elected representatives of the citizens.
Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by denton-scratch on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @08:19AM (#30841548)
FWIW, I'd like some kind of representation for Debian users.

Many DDs (most?) also work on other Linuxen, and are not particularly committed to "The Debian Way". My guess is that most Debian users use mainly Debian.

If users had had some representation in the systemd decision, I think it would have gone the other way. Package developers naturally don't want to have to target two init systems; I suspect a plurality of users are server admins, who would have been likely to vote down systemd.

It's hard to see how user representation could be made to work though; I don't want users to be able to tell DDs how to work. I just wish users had a bit more than zero voice.

Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by gspr on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @08:47AM (#30841791)
> FWIW, I'd like some kind of representation for Debian users.

I'm very, very confident that that would be a bad idea. I, for one, would retire as a DD if (non-DD) users were given a vote. Listening to user input can of course be really great, but as soon as I have to follow rules made by outsiders, it starts feeling way too much like work and too little like fun. I maintain mostly very unimportant packages, so what I'd do isn't that big of a deal, but I suspect this attitude would be echoed in many other DDs.

> Many DDs (most?) also work on other Linuxen, and are not particularly committed to "The Debian Way".

Really? I doubt that. Apart from some overlap with Ubuntu (which is a Debian derivative anyway), I would definitely guess that it's not that many. But this is just as anecdotal as your statement, of course. I rarely see people say "in [insert distro], we usually do it like this" or the like on the mailing lists.

> If users had had some representation in the systemd decision, I think it would have gone the other way. Package developers naturally don't want to have to target two init systems; I suspect a plurality of users are server admins, who would have been likely to vote down systemd.

I refuse to get into a discussion about what "a plurality of users" might think about systemd, but you illustrate my first point really well: once we have to start doing things we ourselves don't want to do, by order of some outsider, it's no longer fun. It's work. I expect to be paid for work. And I expect outsiders to stay out of my fun.

Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by e2le on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @12:18PM (#30844546)
DD's are stakeholders just as the users are.
Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by denton-scratch on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @08:06AM (#30841444)
That is correct; the DDs are the citizens. The users don't get representatives in Debian. That's why I appreciate transparency.
Re:Debian decides to allow secret votes by tormock on Tuesday March 29, 2022 @08:20AM (#30841552)
Maybe if the votes were anonymous, bribes would disappear because the people giving the money would have no way of knowing how you voted?