The whole point of a union is to have a way to challenge management effectively if their work conditions are worsened in the name of "efficiency".

This comment drastically underestimates the amount of capital spent on suppressing union activity, it's not as if they're operating in a vacuum.

I thought the whole point was supposedly to raise wages through collective bargaining?

That's sort of what they have become. A couple generations ago, it was for working conditions.

For my coal mining grandfather, it meant safety equipment like respirators so you didn't get black lung, and that the company had to send down a meal for you if you were working a double (before that you had to rely on the next shift to give you items from their lunches, if they were willing to share).

> For my coal mining grandfather, it meant safety equipment like respirators so you didn't get black lung

We have OSHA for that today, so I don’t think the primary purpose of a union is to file OSHA complaints…

If you read my comment and didn't respond out of context, you'll see that they were started for working conditions. And yes, pay is part of it too.

Who do you think lobbied to start OSHA? It was the unions.

Crediting unions solely for pursuing the creation of federal workplace safety regulations is a bit of a revision. It was a issue of significant public interest in the late 60s, and the specific reason that OSHA ended up being created was that Nixon had made a campaign promise to address workplace safety.

But regardless of the history, it’s not longer especially relevant to the roles of unions today, and certainly adds nothing to the value unions supposedly provide to their members.

I didn't credit them solely. Yes workers and workers right organizations supported it. Unions were the main ones lobbying it. We all know that without lobbying things don't get done in the US (unfortunately).

The question wasn't about what unions do today. The question specifically asked what unions were for. I stand by my statement that they were formed not only for pay increases, but also for working conditions improvements.

Wages are certainly included in the conditions of work, some would say they're among the most important!

You can be as efficient as you want, but there's no way to compete in things like manufacturing when foreign labor is literally pennies on the dollar.