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Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by ParadisoShlee on Monday March 21, 2022 @03:08AM (#30751099)
Propaganda. Wayland has usability issues they've yet to fix after 10 years. and GNOME is sadly a DE that's just javascript.

The Linux Desktop deserves better than GNOME, and sadly KDE is the one that's gotten massively improved in the last 10 years.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by szanni on Monday March 21, 2022 @04:17AM (#30751577)
> Propaganda. Wayland has usability issues they've yet to fix after 10 years.

This. Sadly. I have tried switching numerous times.

The problem for me is libinput which seems to suffer from the "we know better" syndrome that seems to have become more prevalent in recent years on Linux. The author even openly states so in the FAQ [0]. Certain features will NEVER be implemented, because you are wrong to want them. Looks like Apple to me. On X I luckily still have synaptics which provides the knobs I need.

Aside from that Wayland still randomly crashes.

[0] https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/faqs.htm...

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by franga2000 on Monday March 21, 2022 @10:57AM (#30754860)
Yeah the libinput team's insistence on "your use case is invalid" and the wayland team's classic "this is a job for the compositor" are making the next generation of linux desktops more locked down than iOS for regular users.

Pushing so much responsibility onto compositors means we'll never get even close to the variety of DEs that we had before. Even the two biggest DEs don't have feature parity with X11 despite owning their compositors.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by kaba0 on Monday March 21, 2022 @04:14AM (#30751555)
Did you just label your comment with the first word? Thanks!

Gnome is not just javascript, it uses js as a scripting engine similarly to how AAA games use C#/Lua.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by fivelessminutes on Monday March 21, 2022 @03:21AM (#30751196)
When did you last try it? Nobody can factor in 'usability issues' into their considerations, since one person's 'issue' may not matter to another.

From my perspective it has been working well for years, and the alternative stacks all appear to be dying off since Ubuntu has also blessed it.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by Lio on Monday March 21, 2022 @03:20AM (#30751192)
Would you mind saying what those usability issues are?

Sometimes it's very useful to flag these things up so that they can either be acknowledged or fixed.

Sometimes, if you're lucky, they actually have been solved since the last time you checked.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by bmn__ on Monday March 21, 2022 @07:12AM (#30752632)
Lio, this naivety, that is to say, the supposition of cooperation on behalf of the Gnome developers, hurts me to read. ;_; Gnome does not function like other free software projects. They do not actually listen to their users, this is the root of so so many problems with the software suite, they just do what is in their own interest.
Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by oxplot on Monday March 21, 2022 @03:11AM (#30751118)
> Propaganda

You just accused me of writing up "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view".

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by semi-extrinsic on Monday March 21, 2022 @03:28AM (#30751245)
Except from the "political" part of the definition, which everyone understands from the current context that this does not apply, what part do you disagree with?

You are saying "everything works amazingly well". Others are reporting "simple things don't work, sometimes it just segfaults". Of course those other people can perceive your post as a form of propaganda.

I have never used Wayland (I don't have a good reason to try it), so I don't know whether you or GP is correct. But there is obviously a possibility that GP is correct. You could even both be correct, if there are hardware-related bugs that you just happen to not experience.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by fivelessminutes on Monday March 21, 2022 @03:37AM (#30751311)
Even a little experience with it would raise the chance the three paras you wrote on the topic might be worth reading.
Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by sph on Monday March 21, 2022 @07:09AM (#30752602)
> The Linux Desktop deserves better than GNOME

Speak for yourself. I want the macOS lite experience on Linux, not the Windows lite one, thank you very much.

GNOME at least tries to have a cohesive and consistent design, instead of the whole kitchen sink approach of Windows and KDE.

To be fair I have a great deal of appreciation and respect for KDE, but its users are quick to shit on GNOME whenever they can. Nobody is forcing it on you.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by bmn__ on Monday March 21, 2022 @07:43AM (#30752901)
> Nobody is forcing it on you.

But is that really the case? </TIK>

Gnome/Gtk developers have sabotaged integration efforts since many years. The negative attitude against their products does not come à propos nothing. It is deserved as it follows naturally from their anti-user and anti-cooperative behaviour.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by sph on Monday March 21, 2022 @09:12AM (#30753716)
Quit calling it anti user. Am I not a user, or I do not count as much as other Linux users because I like GNOME?

There is absolutely nothing wrong in a DE wanting to go their own way instead of supporting any type of weird crazy configuration users might ask for. I want an opinionated desktop environment, I don't go complain to KDE devs that they should get rid of menus and adopt a headerbar because I dislike menus. Yet the opposite happens every time.

GNOME is exploring a UI paradigm different from any other else, and some really dislike them because of it. How dare they, the hubris of these developers!

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by bmn__ on Monday March 21, 2022 @11:05AM (#30754928)
Quit playing a victim and misdirecting/mischaracterising the points I wrote about.

This isn't about "exploring a UI paradigm", this is about users of the other DEs actually being treated badly by the Gnome/Gtk developers. The criticism will continue until they adopt the mindset that is prevalent in the F/OSS community and stop offloading their externalities, so that a user's choice of an opinionated DE does not negatively affect another user's choice of a configurable DE.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by jahlove on Monday March 21, 2022 @11:20AM (#30755091)
> Nobody is forcing it on you.

Funny, my company actually is forcing me to use Gnome once we migrate to CentOS 8. Something about how RHEL is no longer supporting other desktop managers and it's too difficult to harden other ones. I am a Mate user and am not pleased.

Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by silon42 on Monday March 21, 2022 @09:31AM (#30753888)
To each it's own... I strongly prefer Windows (<=7) to MacOS UI.
Re:Tell HN: Gnome on Wayland Is Amazing by gitgud on Monday March 21, 2022 @07:11AM (#30752622)
> and GNOME is sadly a DE that's just javascript.

Why is that sad? It's just a scripting engine...

> and sadly KDE is the one that's gotten massively improved in the last 10 years.

Why is that sad? Sounds like a good thing...

I'm starting to think your definition of "sadly" is different to mine...