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Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by lqet on Monday March 14, 2022 @03:58AM (#30669593)
> The day will come when the last star dies and the universe plunges into eternal darkness. [...] The last star in the cosmos will very likely be a red dwarf. Alien life forms may live around such a star, and it could be humanity’s final home before the universe becomes inhospitable.

Call me a pessimist, but I would be extremely surprised if humans are still around then.

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by BjoernKW on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:24AM (#30669759)
> Call me a pessimist, but I would be extremely surprised if humans are still around then.

Why is that? Despite what pessimists - and even the occasional realist - have been saying for decades now, so far humanity has avoided extinction or civilization collapse. Even the arguably most urgent as well as most important problem for decades to come (climate change) isn't an extinction-level event, even in a worst-case scenario.

So far, mankind's continued existence depended on a rather fragile foundation. Once mankind develops into a multi-planetary species, which we are on the verge of becoming, simply all bets are off and things might work out either way.

Becoming a multi-planetary species might be the Great Filter we seem to be observing. Paradoxically, that we have yet to meet any species that has already passed that filter, makes it more likely for humans to simply be the first ones to do so.

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by frankfrankfrank on Monday March 14, 2022 @05:05AM (#30670061)
Just alone the fact that people like us who are arguably part of humanity’s most advanced people must believe that climate change is the biggest problem is a very good indicator that humanity will not survive, particularly because you and we are unable to identify other far more immediate pressing challenges that make climate change a relatively meaningless concern even if you accept all of its premises and motivations for concerns about it at face value … a totally other large issue.

Just alone the fact that people cannot even speak freely without censorship and of certain topics in order to discuss objectively whether they are legitimate or possibly a greater risk than climate change, specifically because the conversation and topics themselves are forced and enforced, is also a very good indicator that things will not go as well as people want to tell themselves.

You say we are on the cusp of interplanetary existence? Just alone the realities of that state are likely to cause more problems that could lead to extinction than not. For example, it is far more likely that humans will rather rapidly diverge in evolution between planets for several reasons, which can lead to all kinds of issues not directly related to whether one of the species of human will survive.

We are in a global toxic relationship with each other and are not even clear about fundamental questions of agreeing on basic facts or being able to even just examine whether all the basic assumptions are correct. How one could expect that to allow us to face of extinction is beyond me. However, it strikes me that lying to oneself of faking it til you make it will simply not impress a cold and calculated mistress as reality.

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by BjoernKW on Monday March 14, 2022 @08:59AM (#30671869)
Well, "biggest" is something else than "urgent and important".

Fair enough, though. It perhaps is true that climate change is assigned undue importance in public discourse when compared with other problems that might be just as important - or even more so.

You'd be hard pressed, however, to find an issue that has as many immediate (or near-future) and potentially severe repercussions for as many people.

Evolutionary divergence certainly seems like a potentially relevant future problem, the key word here being "potentially", though. Climate change, on the other hand, is a certain reality. Assigning the same resources to both problems, even though one of them might never even materialize (or do so in a manner we can't even anticipate yet), therefore would be irrational.

That doesn't mean, however, that we can't work on solving both at the same time. At the very least, 8 billion or so people allow for massive parallelism.

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by dTal on Monday March 14, 2022 @05:26AM (#30670196)
>people like us who are arguably part of humanity’s most advanced people

Arguable indeed.

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by ayngg on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:25AM (#30669768)
It is hard for me to see a future where humanity lasts long enough for that to be a problem, while not possessing the technology required to address it. I would assume that at that point we would be creating universes to escape to or something else that is unimaginable today.
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by rbanffy on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:41AM (#30669869)
A trillion trillion years from now we’ll be as far from human as a god is to a hydrogen atom.
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by pomdapi on Monday March 14, 2022 @06:00AM (#30670454)
Who's to say god isn't (a) hydrogen atom(s) ?
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by rbanffy on Tuesday March 15, 2022 @03:39AM (#30682626)
I was going for a notional deity, not a specific one.
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by pomdapi on Saturday March 19, 2022 @05:21AM (#30732359)
Fair enough.
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by adastra22 on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:08AM (#30669655)
You're a pessimist. If we can survive long enough to have sustainable settlements away from this planet and moving out to the stars, there will be no stamping out humanity.
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by rbanffy on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:40AM (#30669861)
The time scales are so vast that’s hard to answer that. We also need to be able to expand do other systems as well. At that stage, I wonder what the appeal of being a planet-hugger is - if we can live in city ships in deep space, why would we want to go into a gravity well just to see a planetary surface from up close?
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by adastra22 on Monday March 14, 2022 @08:17AM (#30671500)
The appeal of an inner solar system would be the Dyson swarm surrounding the star, powering a Jupiter-sized matryoshka brain. But most of humanity would live in the vastness between the stars: taking a sun with us in the form of portable fusion power, and making a home among the trillions of Kuiper belt and Oort cloud objects between the stars. Hopping from rock to rock, sprouting villages, towns, and cities with each step an blossoming humanity into uncountable many descendant civilizations.
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by ithkuil on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:08AM (#30669652)
The time scale is so vast that whatever happens, with whatever definition of "optimism", it's hard to imagine our descendents to recognize themselves into us.

There is un circumstance: that a group of humans today (or in the near future) just time "travels in the future" (e.g. by moving at relativistic speeds, etc, while in cryogenic sleep or whatever) and just happen to witness the late universe without the time actually ticking for them. In that (unlikely) case the same effect that would prevent the species from diverging is the same that would prevent them from getting extinct (not enough time)

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by rbanffy on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:38AM (#30669841)
> moving at relativistic speeds, etc, while in cryogenic sleep or whatever

There’s an interesting way to get to relativistic speeds - to get close enough to a supermassive black hole, steal enough momentum so you get very close to c, then, a subjective week later, you do the same around another black hole in a different galactic core to shed your momentum and get back to a manageable speed. An intergalactic civilisation would use supermassive black holes as train stations.

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by midasuni on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:42AM (#30669877)
If we survive 300 years we will have self sufficient spacecraft (probably asteroids) and power not reliant on the sun (fusion)

Once you have that you inevitably have groups heading off into space in different directions, never to return to Earth, but some will survive trips to other stars, and some will multiply and branch out from then

At that point humanity or its descendants will inevitably fill the entire galaxy, although it won’t be a single civilisation.

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by buro9 on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:50AM (#30669946)
We'll need to improve our collation and storage of the sum of human knowledge.

Today if you took the scrapable internet + wikipedia + all academic journals, you still probably lack enough detail and method to reproduce techniques in manufacturing, mining, tooling, medicine, and so on.

If the hypothesis is that humans will survive so long as we are off-planet, then the humans leaving the planet need to be able to do everything fully disconnected from the home world to really survive if something happens to the populace on the home world.

Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by zdkl on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:53AM (#30669969)
I really like the IPFS solution to this. Basically a torrent where each chunk is addressable, so you get deduplication on each mirror even across unrelated file hierarchies.
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by simonh on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:20AM (#30669723)
Our descendants then.
Re:Red Dwarfs Will Be Humanity’s Last Home Before the Univer... by rbanffy on Monday March 14, 2022 @04:52AM (#30669963)
Or successors.