5 interview rounds sounds about normal, especially with the price tag being so high these days. Compare buying a loaf of bread to buying a house. The bread just gets plopped into your cart. The house involves visiting multiple times, inspections, lawyers, etc. because the amount of money is so high. You cost as much as a house, so the buyers are going to scrutinize a little bit.

It's also worth mentioning, you say that you won't follow rules about where you're supposed to work and you think everyone interviewing you is dumber than you. People pick up on that attitude and read it as a red flag. You're going to be doing their code reviews, you're going to be commenting on their designs; if you seem unpleasant in the interviews, they're not going to hire you.

Do be aware that this is a common symptom of burnout. If you're burned out, you're not going to be approaching the job hunt in a great state of mind, and it's going to hurt your chances. My recommendation is to heal on your current employer's time; look at new projects, taking a vacation, options for paid leave, ADA/FMLA allowances, etc.

I disagree. If there is a significant gap between you and the company, that's as much as a red flag for you than them. Maybe the OP should focus more on companies where he feels integrated (remote working, leetcode b.s., using his own tools, emails instead of slack, etc...) I'm pretty sure there is something for everyone in this big world. Keeping yourself in a job where you have all these processes is what makes you burn out. The guy is probably responding to elements that might have made him burn out in the past.

Very true. I think that two bad options for dealing with burnout are rage quitting without another job lined up and getting fired for show. They put you in a worse negotiating position and set you up to be burned out again when you're bitter about not getting paid enough.

I doubt not getting paid enough is the problem. although a contributing factor. it doesn't necessarily leads to bitterness, unless other factors come into play.

Such as the scenario of providing feedback on how certain technical choices made by (supposedly technical) managers, in contradiction with senior architects and most senior developers, are going to cost a lot to reverse down the road, then when that's precisely what happens, and being explained the company isn't in a position to increase your salary, that manager gets promoted anyway, and 3 new hires joins in to help reverse the misguided technical direction, but of course new hires have no clue how anything was put together, so end up asking the long timers some help, help that is pretty much doing 80% of work to meet deadlines, and then of course the newer hires' manager ensures the credit goes to his new reports, so that he can at least give those a rise and retain them. and also control them since they still little exposure to the entire stack.

the bitterness is usually not about the money, it's about how a few bad apples know how to play power games and ultimately ruins all the hard work of long ago gone managers who somehow made meritocracy at the core of the company. Those managers weren't very technical either, but they worked more ethically and shined at their role.

note: this isn't my own anecdotal story. it's a theme I've started seeing more and more in the last 5y or so, plaguing mid size companies the most, those that reached a level of maturity.

“I had proposed a design two years ago for this. I’m happy to share those documents and explain why, this approach should still be viable. Good luck implementing it!

I am not available for the project unfortunately.”

Don’t be a chump.

Not working is a perfectly valid option for dealing with burnout. Finally start that business, do some consulting, put that savings to use as a cushion instead of just a high score. Jobs will be there when you're done.

COBRA depletes the cushion very quickly. I feel like if your employer made you unhealthy, they should pay to make you healthy. That's why I recommend avoiding the rage quit plan. If you live in a country with government-provided health coverage, the equation changes a lot, however.

the UK unfortunately only seems to provide long term sickness support, which is a slim weekly allowance. they don't hesitate to take away 33% off gross salary in tax and other contributions, but no safety net.

Exactly. thanks for reading between the lines.

> The house involves visiting multiple times, inspections, lawyers, etc. because the amount of money is so high.

Ironically, because the market is so hot for houses these days in the Boston area (and many others, I’m sure), there are many house sales with limited visits and waived inspections.

Not only that, here in Dallas many homes are being sold sight unseen these days.

I never called out those interviewers dumber than me. I specifically said they were significantly less technical than I am. And you may think highly technical candidates should play along with that, that it's unreasonable to expect higher expertise from interviewers. I tried, but they come up with the questions, and drill candidates with technical questions that the interviewer can't even grasp the answers given, expecting different ones probably because mine, although more adequate, sounds nothing like what he has on his script. Am I supposed to take a guess on the answer he wants? They aren't dumb. they just don't have enough technical understanding to recognise the gap when facing very experienced coders.

If I appeared unpleasant to them, it isn't because I'm disrespectful or condescending, or even burnout. it's simply because they are red flags and being fortunate enough to be hired would probably turn out to become a curse.

I however appreciate your advice about being burned out. and that is precisely what I'm doing. I started new projects, mostly artistic, and also a bit of coding to stay up to speed with that kind of mental activity. I think doing that for a few months to heal is desirable to get ready to join a new environment. thank you.

> Easy to get a job with a salary bump ? My recent attempts took well over 6 weeks each, with 3 to 5 interview rounds, mostly being screened by developers and managers having significant tech skills gaps, making the questioning a painful dissonance exercise.

Perhaps my view is skewed but that seems like a very standard process at every large company? If they give me a raise after that without me having to negotiate, I’d definitely call that “easy”…

that's my point, it remains the standard process. and I don't think it should be that way given how ineffective that process is.

Some companies would hire who they consider the right candidate after the first or second interview. they recognise it won't be of much help to drill a candidate for 5h to 8h and make sure 5 or 6 people in the team all agree on that candidate to be a good fit, that this approach rather lead to hiring the wrong candidates. top performers may very well take another job in between since the process of 5 interviews takes obviously several weeks. Talented engineers may not even want to put down 5 to 10h scattered across 8 weeks for a job they may not even be offered due to a sudden hiring freeze or just being dislikes by that HR interviewed on the final round.

Very standard process at large companies. so what? the article relates to the great resignation. Well this standard process is a contributing to the great resignation in tech. I'm temporarily resigning. until I need to earn a living again. in other words I don't want the job, even at 200k/year job given what they generally expect us to go through prior to getting hired and then on the job.

All the companies at the high end of the pay scale will do this to you. Usually it’s not the interviews themselves that take 8 weeks anyways, it’s scheduling them to be on the same day and then dealing with a bunch of administrative tasks.

If it feels easy, money was probably left on the table.

I would definitely recommend continuing to negotiate, especially by putting multiple offers on the table.

Honestly sounds like the HR dept at that company is woefully out of touch with the industry at this point.

Almost sounds like they _want_ you to leave.

they are out of touch with the industry, and also out of touch with the organisation itself. they are at the same time getting worried seeing alarming attrition figures. they are wondering how to improve retention.

protip to them: a good way to improve retention is not to threaten your employees with docking 50% of their salary.

> HR isn't getting any memo, they are threatening me with disciplinary measures because I refuse to follow their return to the office location policy. They even proposed to cut my salary in half if I persist in preferring to stay remote to save on expenses.

Thought you might enjoy this TikTok on the same topic: https://www.tiktok.com/@loewhaley/video/7061684115573067014?...

You’re complaining that the company is unhappy, but not to the point of firing you, when you literally refuse to show up for work?

That's the effective way to negotiate working conditions. If they showed up to the office then their managers would never approve anything. Best to look for another offer in case you get fired, though.

Why show up for work if you can just do it?

Unfortunately for me, I've had a WFH gig since 2018, so Covid hasn't affected me all that much.

But I do feel like I'm missing out on power-trip fantasies of getting to say "no" to the CEO's face about returning to the office in a Zoom call and grinning while knowing they have zero leverage because I'm the only domain-expert in an incredibly niche field at the company and they'd be unable to replace me - and if they did, I'd be able to walk-in to a higher paying job within a few months besides.

Has anyone on the Internet recorded and shared their "negotiation" Zoom calls? Genuinely curious - not least for the entertainment factor...

I’d recommend asking for it politely, and if they don’t give it to you find another job that will let you work from home (a lot will be flexible during negotiation even if they generally say they prefer in-person roles) and then just come back saying (politely, of course) you are planning on leaving because you want remote work.

> when you literally refuse to show up for work?

doesnt sound like they refuse to show up for work. More like, is choosing to work from home.

software engineering does not need to be done in the office.

And his employer refuses to negotiate. Fuckem.

6 whole weeks? The majority of labor in the US needs 6+ years to get 20-25% salary growth.