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Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by PragmaticPulp on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:05PM (#30666209)
I’m not a Wordle player so I was confused about why they’d shut down the archive part of their acquisition.

Reading closer, the “Wordle Archive” was a Wordle clone site that allowed people to play old Wordles.

No surprise that they’d be asking clone sites, especially those using both the trademark and exact content, to shut down. You can’t expect to clone Wordle, call it Wordle, use the Wordle words, and expect the Wordle owners to look the other way. This seems like a non-story.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by makeitdouble on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:17PM (#30666296)
I think it's fine to have "dog bites man" stories. NYT paying money for a property and aggressively trying to defend is totally expected, but still a story worth conveying.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by cush on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:23PM (#30666337)
A small indie dev got $1M+ for the name “Wordle” and NYT wants to own the brand. It’s not “dog bites man”… it’s a complete non-story.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by giraffe_lady on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:07PM (#30666674)
It's not news but it can still be a story. This is the kind of decision editors make, this is part of what people mean when they talk about editorial stance.

A publication whose only editorial goal is to give you novel information would not report "orphan crushing machine crushes 80 orphans, as it has every day since it was activated" since you probably already know about that. OTOH people are hitting adulthood every day never having heard of the orphan crushing machine, and you want to give them a chance to say "excuse me the what??"

"System working as intended" isn't new information, but making people consider the effects of that intention can be valuable. We might in fact want it to work a different way if we think about it for a bit.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by cush on Sunday March 13, 2022 @10:26PM (#30667911)
You got hyper fixated on my use of the word _story_ and completely missed my actual point.

NYT bought "Wordle" from an indie dev for $1M+. The article complains about the fact they're protecting their newly-bought and very expensive IP. The orphan-crushing analogy is a strawman, because Josh Wardle wouldn't have been incentivized to protect the IP. The incentive to protect "Wordle" happened when $1M+ was exchanged and has nothing to do with NYT as a company. Any company or person would do the same.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by xref on Monday March 14, 2022 @01:08AM (#30668713)
> Any company or person would do the same.

Definitely not a given, NYT made a choice to act aggressively to monetize their IP and can bear the consequences of doing so.

A classic example is Metallica suing their own fans who downloaded their music, and Radiohead who let fans name their own price for an album including $0. In all 3 cases above, all parties got to choose their own actions which all have their own outcomes.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by cush on Monday March 14, 2022 @02:03AM (#30668985)
It’s not a classic example because NYT is (just like Radiohead) giving away Wordle for $0

You don’t think Radiohead has ever taken legal action to protect their IP? Radiohead sued Lana Del Ray because one of her songs sounded like Creep.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with protecting your personal brand.

And it’s even less aggressive with NYT because they can only cease the use of their “Wordle” trademark

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by notadev on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:37PM (#30666906)
Wordle is basically Bulls and Cows (or a text-based Mastermind). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulls_and_Cows
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by xg15 on Sunday March 13, 2022 @08:06PM (#30667079)
Point is, the clone existed before Wordle was acquired and had never been a problem before.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by dymk on Sunday March 13, 2022 @08:09PM (#30667099)
Not sure what weight that point is supposed to carry.

It was a ripoff of the IP before the sale, and it was a ripoff of the IP after the sale, and the owner (whoever it is at whatever point) can send a cease and desist.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by ipaddr on Sunday March 13, 2022 @08:48PM (#30667331)
It becomes fair use because the ip owner did not enforce copyrights before.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by dragonwriter on Sunday March 13, 2022 @08:49PM (#30667335)
That's not how copyright, or specifically copyright fair use, works.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by ipaddr on Sunday March 13, 2022 @09:06PM (#30667440)
Trademarks can be lost by not enforcing rights. Wordle is a trademarked name. The game play is not under copyright. Only the art is under copyright and extract words in some order to some extent
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by tedunangst on Sunday March 13, 2022 @10:20PM (#30667881)
And lookie here, the owner is enforcing their rights.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by ipaddr on Monday March 14, 2022 @07:35PM (#30679951)
Anyone can bring a case for any reason. Let's see how this plays out.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by alar44 on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:12PM (#30666263)
Idk, wordle isn't really new and isn't something you should be able to own.

It'd be like claiming to own tic tac toe or rock paper scissors. It's just too simple imo.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by jeroenhd on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:54PM (#30666584)
I don't think "wordle" was a popular name for the game before it got popular on the internet, so a trademark makes sense in this case.

Of course Wordle is just Lingo but online. And Lingo is just televised Mastermind with letters instead of colours. Mastermind is an extension of Bulls and Cows and if you go back further I'm sure you can find another game like it.

There are some very big broadcasting companies that have put a lot of money into the "guess the word" genre and the New York Times probably know that they can't take down every game with similar rules.

The best they can do is find infringement of their trademark and pursue those who infringe upon it, or risk losing the trademark all together. They could also license the trademark, of course, but a blanket cease and desist letter is cheaper than negotiating a contract.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by andai on Thursday March 17, 2022 @11:18AM (#30712072)
Been wondering about the trademark, there are a lot of variants with names also ending in -le (eg Nerdle, Semantle), would they be in any danger of getting a cease and desist? Asking for a friend ;)

I'm asking about the name because you can't patent gameplay afaik, so even if it was a straight clone, as long as the word list (and code?) was original it would be OK.

On the other hand I recall Worlds.com suing (somewhat successfully?) both Second Life and Minecraft, so maybe you can patent game concepts?

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by Phrodo_00 on Sunday March 13, 2022 @08:04PM (#30667066)
> the New York Times probably know that they can't take down every game with similar rules.

I might be wrong as I'm not a lawyer, but I was under the impression that game rules are not protected by copyright.

WB games did patent a game rules system (Nemesis), but copyright is not the same as patents, and also I'm not sure how they got away with doing it.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by Wowfunhappy on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:42PM (#30666471)
I can't tell because it has been taken down—was the Wordle archive using the original game's javascript code, or was it a complete rewrite? Wordle is entirely client-side, so it would have been easy to do.

The game concept (probably) isn't copyrightable, but the code certainly is.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by IanCal on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:46PM (#30666962)
The word list is absolutely copyrightable however.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by Wowfunhappy on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:48PM (#30666978)
That's not actually obvious to me—is it a creative work? I doubt Patrick Wardle manually wrote out every word in the array.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by IanCal on Sunday March 13, 2022 @08:37PM (#30667278)
The word list of acceptable answers isn't, that's just essentially all 5 letter words. The actual answer list is a manually curated list of words (cut down from 10-15k to 2-3k), chosen to be good fun to play with.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by xeromal on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:08PM (#30666683)
I'd love to see where the wordle game existed before the guy who made it, made it? Got any links?
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by xdfgh1112 on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:18PM (#30666765)
There's a TV show in the UK at least called Lingo that predates it by several years. It's literally the exact same game.

But full credit to Wordle's creator, the one word a day and social media sharing stuff is the real secret sauce.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by Biganon on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:44PM (#30666946)
Also Motus on French television.

But it doesn't matter, you can't protect a game concept with intellectual property. Neither patents nor copyright allow this. The only thing that could be protected here is the name Wordle, the art assets (if there are any that are nongeneric enough), and the exact source code.

See Tetris, etc.

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by soylentgraham on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:47PM (#30666971)
That's Lingo, not Wordle.

Secondly, everyone keeps mentioning (repeating?...) about this famous TV show in the UK; I have never heard of it until december. Reading the gameplay of the show on Wikipedia.... it sounds like an almost entirely different game, aside from the fact it (sometimes!) involves a 5 letter word, and you have to pick letters. Mastermind (the game), is so much closer

Did you actually see the tv show?

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by Symbiote on Sunday March 13, 2022 @08:16PM (#30667132)
This American Lingo TV game looks very similar. I think Wordle's hard mode is the same.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=sC0kie6dPjo

Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by micropunk on Sunday March 13, 2022 @08:30PM (#30667225)
Well it's daytime TV quiz show, so no reason you would have heard of it. The first rounds are the same as wordle. See for yourself: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O5O7ZCvpItY
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by xdfgh1112 on Monday March 14, 2022 @05:53AM (#30670399)
Yes I've watched it, yes it is the exact same game with the exact same rules. (Across 4, 5 and 6 letter words).
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by cush on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:15PM (#30666291)
“Wordle” is a trademark that NYT owns
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by dehrmann on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:28PM (#30666368)
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by flipq on Sunday March 13, 2022 @07:08PM (#30666682)
Unless those people could prove they independently created their Wordles before Wardle’s Wordle was created, it doesn’t legally matter. NYT owns the rights to “Wordle” over the similar clones.
Re:NYT shutting down the Wordle archive by hartator on Sunday March 13, 2022 @06:31PM (#30666378)
I don’t think “Wordle” is a registered trademark.