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Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by dzikimarian on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:59AM (#30597586)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/evacuation-rou...

However looking at your other activity, I would have to present article from Russia Today.

First and foremost Russians shouldn't be there. How evil they were exactly, can be assessed later, when they go back to their side of the border.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by 331c8c71 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:36AM (#30597847)
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/evacuation-rou...

Mined by whom?

> However looking at your other activity, I would have to present article from Russia Today

Mainstream western media now is heavily biased for the simple fact that it most of the time even don't report what the Russians are saying on the same matter.

I'm checking al jazeera which at least reports both sides.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by dzikimarian on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @06:37AM (#30598828)
> Mined by whom?

Sorry, but even suggesting, that Ukrainians mined evacuation route for their own people is plainly disgusting. I and multiple of my friends, were on the border and helped fleeing people. They told me first hand how they escaped. There was ZERO critique of their officials or military.

I'm checking both sides - what they're saying is usually completely out of touch with reality and blunt, very poorly prepared propaganda.

And finally - Russians are invading independent country. There's nothing they can say to change that fact.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by deepsun on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:53AM (#30597540)
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by 331c8c71 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:02AM (#30597622)
I don't like people suffering as much as you do but I cannot conclude from these videos that these people were deliberately attacked by Russians (I mean videos with the footage).

You are posting ukranian sources and as much as u sympathesize with their suffering it is wartime and information is propaganda.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by deepsun on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @07:48AM (#30599292)
Those are not Ukrainian sources, it's an independent channel in Russian.

If you don't believe testimonials of the people right there, the exact people who were attacked, then I see the only better source: go there yourself. What other evidence is better?

In any case, it's Russia who amassed a shit ton of military all around the Ukraine, and started the invasion.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by jacquesm on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:34AM (#30597387)
Enough to convince Human Rights Watch.

" Dat rapporteert mensenrechtenorganisatie Human Rights Watch (HRW) op basis van ooggetuigen en beeldanalyses. "

According to a report by humanrights organization Human Rights Watch based on eye witness accounts and image analysis.

https://www.nu.nl/spanningen-oekraine/6185514/mensenrechteno...

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by 331c8c71 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:53AM (#30597541)
have you actually read what you have posted? i google translated:

> There were also some Ukrainian soldiers present at the intersection, but they were outnumbered, according to HRW. The Ukrainian soldiers who were at the crossroads helped the refugees with their luggage. A few hundred meters away, Russian and Ukrainian troops were fighting each other. According to HRW, the Russians may have deliberately fired projectiles at the intersection

To me it reads like there was an engagement between the ukranian and russian soldiers nearby and unfortunately some civilians were caught in a crossfire.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by totesraunch on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:42AM (#30597453)
They don't want actual evidence. There plenty of videos of civilians being murdered, which I'm sure they'll say isn't evidence enough.
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by hef19898 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:46AM (#30597489)
See, Human Rights Watch doing witness interviews and picture analysis is what I call evidence. Some video or picture somewhere on social media not so much. I've seen to many of those, from wars years ago in different parts of the world than the one the claim to be from, to actually believe any of those anymore.
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by totesraunch on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:00AM (#30597600)
These videos aren't from early-mid 2000s middle east where westerners can't tell the difference. They're clearly Ukranian cities and very high def videos (which didn't exist in past Soviet/European wars).
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by hef19898 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:03AM (#30597634)
One thing you should really take away from this ongoing propaganda / information war is to never blindly trust what seems to be "evidence". Especially if that evidence is confirming your own biases and preferences. Because that willingness to believe information is what makes propaganda so powerfull.
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by totesraunch on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:10AM (#30597678)
You're right, it's peaceful in Ukraine, no civilians are dying. The Russian 'special military operarion' is going off without a hitch and civilians are welcoming their saviors. My mistake.
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by hef19898 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:19AM (#30597735)
One more comment and I stop, because it's getting pointless. I never doubted that Ukrainian civilians are dying, why would I? Nor did I ever defend Putin's actions or the Russian invasion, because again, why would I? I do try to provide some context so. Because propaganda, even if it is for the right cause (whatever that is in general so) and at least partially true still is, well, propaganda. And I don't like propaganda. Ukraine is using information to great effect, and they have every right to do so, because they need and deserve every help they can get. I truly believe this. This doesn't mean so that I believe everything that is published, even from reliable and vetted sources, right now. Because the fog of war, even if it's not outright disinformation, is way to thick to actually judge information in a reliable manner.

What can be said is that war in general is ugly. So a lot of shit and war crimes are being committed and will continue to be committed. All the more reason for political leaders world wide to find a quick, peaceful solution to this mess. One that doesn't give any stretch of land to Russia.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by buffalo2391 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:34AM (#30597381)
World you like to see photos? There are many posted on some of the darker subreddits.
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by mytailorisrich on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:06AM (#30597650)
Photos of victims are not evidence of much in themselves.

Civilians can be hit in cross-fire. So you need evidence that civilians were targeted. Then, you need evidence of whom targeted them, which may or may not be that simple to find.

At the moment, all pictures and accounts in the media and online are purely emotional because the aim is to provoke emotional reactions, not cool-headed analysis.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by hef19898 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:35AM (#30597390)
The question is about evidence, not photos on some forum.
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by avh02 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:44AM (#30597466)
And photos were never used in court?
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by hef19898 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:47AM (#30597501)
If you analyze them, and back them up, sure. If you take them from an un-vetted source on the internet, not so much. Wouldn't be the first time pictures from different wars were used as "evidence" for crimes in another war.
Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by curiousgal on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:37AM (#30597411)
Honestly, I stopped using Reddit, the amount of Ukranian propaganda has been through the roof. People are romanticizing the war. I log in to look at memes and cat videos and instead watch kids making molotoves.

I have no horse in this race, propoganda is propoganda.

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by adhesive_wombat on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:56AM (#30597561)
I have had family abroad (not Russia) tell me that the media there is reporting that Ukrainian paramilitary forces, including released prisoners, forcibly prevented their own citizens leaving and collapsed the humanitarian corridors[1].

And the problem is, it's actually not completely outside the realms of possiblity, and I have no way to know. As far as I'm aware, the Ukrainians are fighting the good fight, but that's what I _would_ think. When the propaganda is flying this thick and this fast, maybe I'm as bamboozled as anyone else.

On the other hand shrugging and going "dunno, both sides lol" seems pretty ghoulish when the civilians are being killed and homes and cities bombed to nothing.

[1] I do not know where they got that from but it would have been TV. Trying to figure out where that comes from using only sources I can find leads me to a combination of the (apparently true) report that prisoners with military experience are released if they fight against Russia[2] and a TASS(!) report that Ukraine is responsible for collapsing the corridors[3].

[2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-army... amongst others

[3] https://tass.com/politics/1417527

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by 331c8c71 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @03:11AM (#30597683)
> at the media there is reporting that Ukrainian paramilitary forces ... forcibly prevented their own citizens leaving and collapsed the humanitarian corridors

That's no secret, that's pretty much from official statements of Russian officials.

Al Jazeera reports what both sides are saying.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/7/russian-military-con...

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by sofixa on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @06:21AM (#30598731)
> That's no secret, that's pretty much from official statements of Russian officials.

As if the official statements of Russian officials are worth the toilet paper said officials use. Did you miss all the blatant bullshit they said up to and during the invasion? That it's only military exercises, that they're pulling back troops, that they're only on a small special operation, etc. Why would anyone trust them?

Re:Putin may be planning to pummel Kyiv into submission by hef19898 on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @02:51AM (#30597521)
It sure is. Ukraine is using that weapon masterfully so. Kudos for that, and I really mean it. The net result for me being that I ignore the news and only check once every couple of days if a major city has fallen or not. Everything else is just propaganda, including most media coverage, combined with the normal attention and click gathering reporting we se on any story.

That's why confirmation and vetting by orgs like, e.g., Human Rights Watch is so important.