Ordering online doesn't guarantee you a non-dealership experience. There's no stopping them from adding a $5,000 "market adjustment" to the price of the car you ordered online 9 months prior when you go to pick it up. You cannot force them to sell it at MSRP. This has happened to people that ordered Mach-E's, multiple times.

Ford came down hard on dealers who "market adjusted" preorders, and that practice should have been halted for a while now. I think it even made HN.

If they change the price last minute can you renege on your side of the deal and get your money back and cancel?

yes but then you're out time. So they lost nothing because they can sell the car but you lost time.

This is sort point for me. I once custom ordered a BMW with the exact options I wanted. Made a downpayment. Waited 3 months for it to arrive taking the bus to work and getting rides home from friends. It arrived at the dealer and they sold it someone else and then told me I could order another if I wanted. You can probably imagine the rage I felt.

You'd have only put down a refundable deposit with Ford, which the dealership can apply to your purchase, or you can get it refunded by Ford. You have no contractual relationship with the dealer, nor any ownership interest in the car, which is why the dealership that does now own the freshly delivered car is able to demand more money for it.

Yes, the deposits are generally refundable. The dealer will take your car and sell it to someone else at $10k over MSRP. Someday when supply is less tight they won't have that leverage, but it's a seller's market right now.

Some dealers won't do this, but you'll need to put in some work to find them.

yeah but you go to the back of the line for another one at a different dealership who hopefully won't screw you.

Good question. I'm interested to know the answer as well.

sounds like enough of a reason just to buy a Tesla.

Buying a Tesla comes with its own set of problems, like the inability to test drive the car before paying for it, and some of the worst initial quality in the industry -- which means you really should want to test drive it before buying it. Once it's yours, the complete absence of an independent dealer network means you're fully at Tesla's whim for repairing those defects. They will often say "it's within spec" and refuse. Plus, "just buy a Tesla" comes with a price premium that's more than any "market adjustment" at even the shadiest dealer for most other EVs. What buyers of EVs from traditional makes are doing is keeping tabs of what dealerships are applying those underhanded markups and simply not sending their online orders there.

This was my thought as well. Tesla doesn’t have a truck. When they have a truck equivalent to the Ford Lightning it’ll be 2x as much and lack fundamental features. That alone cuts Tesla out of a huge market segment. Their sedans are barely price competitive on the low end and quality seems worse than early Hyundais. They have cool features but also seem to not be ideal vehicles by any means.

Not all dealers are doing that.

Unless Tesla has no appealing or useful options for you. If I need a little goofy sedan I might take a look at Tesla. I need trucks and real vehicles though.

Right now Tesla is coasting on VC and IPO and being early entrant innovator. The bitch slap of truth that is automotive manufacturing and marketing is about to land it's hand. Ford understands that bitch slap better than anyone.

Ford does not understand infotainment or charging experience.

Tesla literally ship with AMD Ryzen CPUs, while other manufacturers still can't even get CPUs. They got 8 cameras, 4 of which you can watch live....anytime on your mobile phone. The supercharger experience sets a standard that no 3rd party comes close to reaching. The supercharger network itself gives Tesla customers the ability to confidently travel and easily charge - fast.

I actually test drove a Mach-E and a Model Y. Ford was straight up trying to rip me off, and made the whole experience really off-putting. On top of that, the Ford dealers literally had no idea what they were doing, or any of the facts. There is no passion in it.

Tesla is all passion. Every Tesla employee wakes up to do one thing; make the world's best EV. Ford (and every other legacy) is trying to change engines in an airplane midflight while trying to learn how to build EV's.

It isn't for the lack of trying - in any area, that Tesla isn't the best at something. Tesla has the smartest people in the room/industry. Their energy and focus is on AI, scaling up manufacturing, battery tech, charging tech, etc. They spend nothing on marketing, and get more free press and word of mouth than any brand but Apple.

Marketing like legacy car companies comes off as desperate and thirsty. Just listen to the two CEO; Ford CEO will play buzzword bingo and talk high level corporate empty-speak. Elon Musk will talk to you about the challenges in battery manufacturing, the nuances of the minutia of building these amazing vehicles. Elon Musk will sleep on the factory floor to get it done. What other CEO has slept on the factory floor?

The man is not without his defects, but literally consider his life accomplishments; PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, tunnel digging because why not, solar panels, residential utility scale battery storage, 30000 "gas stations" around the world.

Literally Ford can't even build vehicles right now. Like production down. Assembly stopped. Tesla is pumping out EV faster than ever before. And Elon Musk is trying to fly rockets to Mars in his spare time.

I respect the history of the legacy's; but they are simply not in a strong position. Musk won. His cars are the cool ones everyone wants.

It isn't that Ford has crazy demand; they have no production. Same as Rivian, etc. It markets well to say Ford/Rivian deliveries of EV are way out to 2024 - but has to be taken in context that they are struggling to produce 50k EV a year.

Tesla has the proven product. Literally no one knows how well a Rivian or Lucid will hold up, or what defects will haunt their early buyers. There isn't enough data out there yet. Same for the Mach-E. Tesla has 10yrs of data for customers to look at; and Tesla has what feels like a 100yr head start...

>> The man is not without his defects, but literally consider his life accomplishments; PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, tunnel digging because why not, solar panels, residential utility scale battery storage, 30000 "gas stations" around the world.

So, let's check list, shall we?

Paypal, wasn't him (at least not even close to the level of what people think)

Tesla, there Elon had to sue to get the title of founder

SpaceX, at least as much Shotwell than him

Tunnel digging, well ever herd of subways?

Solar panels and residential solar, one isn't even noticeable in terms of market share, the other had to be bailed out by Tesla (did I mention some strange corporate governance and financial links between tesla and SpaceX around that time? And that the bailed solar company was owned by his cousin?)

30k "gas stations, impressive... Just ask BP or Exxon how many they have. Credit where credit is due so, Tesla did build the first true charging network. The first, not the only one.

And let's not pretend SpaceX will be the first to reach Mars.

> SpaceX, at least as much Shotwell than him

SpaceX without Elon would still have been SpaceX, SpaceX without Gwynne Shotwell would have been another Blue Origin.

This reads like bad ad copy or like an adolescent is writing a paper while binging on sugar.

Do you work for Tesla, are you a shareholder, or just really into the company?

This was not my experience. I put a reservation down on a F150 Lightning, and a few hours later I got a phone call on my cell phone from a pushy sales person at the dealership, trying to convince me to choose something that's available now rather than waiting.

I ended up canceling my reservation.