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Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by lkrubner on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:10AM (#30586805)
"if we impose our values on everyone"

When a country signs a treaty, it is agreeing to something, presumably because it sees some benefit in it. It is entering into a kind of contract, from which there are presumably multiple benefits to all participants. Nothing is being imposed on anyone. It is being freely chosen by the governments that participate.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by blagie on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:33AM (#30587000)
If a country signs a treaty while a US gunship is sitting in it's port, it sees a clear benefit of not having a "regime change" or a war.

If a Nigerian politician signs a treaty while receiving bribes or election support from a Western or Chinese oil company, that doesn't mean "a country" sees a benefit.

If a country signs a treaty at a risk of being ostracized by the world, it's taking the lesser of two evils.

And if you take a child bride from a war zone, it's a free exchange, with both sides seeing benefit. However, that doesn't mean it's fair or non-coercive. Power imbalances can allow for pretty nasty, unfair deals.

I have a comment elsewhere in this thread with examples, both modern and going back 200 years.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by throwaway894345 on Monday March 07, 2022 @02:37PM (#30592356)
Of course, "the western IP regime" didn't become ubiquitous because of these kinds of coercive practices even if some of them have happened historically. They happened because both sides saw a benefit. Of course, even absent malicious coercion, power imbalances can remain, but invoking "fairness" implies some objective (or otherwise agreeable) standard which patently doesn't exist. Just say you wish Russia (or whomever) had more negotiating power if that's what you mean. The closest we can get to an objective standard is: each side can freely (i.e., absent malicious coercion) choose for themselves.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by politelemon on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:40AM (#30587050)
> Nothing is being imposed on anyone. It is being freely chosen by the governments that participate.

Not the case at all. Treaties are sometimes compromises and in sometimes coercion under the diplomatic guise of choice.

Otherwise there would be no need for a treaty and nations could choose to enforce others' values of their own free will.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by throwaway894345 on Monday March 07, 2022 @02:41PM (#30592404)
> Not the case at all. Treaties are sometimes ... coercion

Exceptions don't refute the general case.

> Otherwise there would be no need for a treaty and nations could choose to enforce others' values of their own free will.

The point of a trade treaty is for each party to formally affirm that they will abide by the other's conditions. This is necessary irrespective of coercion.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by sschueller on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:38AM (#30587027)
Really? Every time I want to open a bank account in Switzerland I am asked if I am an American citizen. I am not asked if I am a citizen of another country or any other specific place. I am only asked if I am an American citizen.

Are you asked if you are Swiss citizen when you open a bank account in America?

Per FATCA treaty you should be but that isn't happening because the mighty power the US holds over anyone dealing with USD. If a US bank doesn't share its Swiss tax cheats nothing happens. If a Swiss bank hides them they get taken to the cleaners and can loose to do business with USD which is a death blow for any bank.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by beaconstudios on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:02AM (#30587227)
Consensual transactions can still be coercive. See Hollywood "casting couch" practices as an example.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by verisimi on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:05AM (#30587261)
Are you an individual or a country though?

Did you sign a contract to be aligned with whatever the individuals running your country decide that you should do?

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by fao_ on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:48AM (#30587125)
Oh, they did? Let's look at how America prevented Africa from manufacturing HIV treatments

    """
    In 1997, South Africa tried one tack. It passed a law to allow the 
    importation of patented medicines that had been produced or sold in another 
    nation's market with the consent of the patent owner. For example, if the 
    drug was sold in India, it could be imported into Africa from India. This 
    is called "parallel importation," and it is generally permitted under 
    international trade law and is specifically permitted within the European 
    Union.
    
    However, the United States government opposed the bill. Indeed, more than 
    opposed. As the International Intellectual Property Association 
    characterized it, "The U.S. government pressured South Africa ... not to 
    permit compulsory licensing or parallel imports." 3 Through the Office of 
    the United States Trade Representative, the government asked South Africa 
    to change the law — and to add pressure to that request, in 1998, the 
    USTR listed South Africa for possible trade sanctions. 
    
    That same year, more than forty pharmaceutical companies began proceedings 
    in the South African courts to challenge the government's actions. The 
    United States was then joined by other governments from the EU. Their 
    claim, and the claim of the pharmaceutical companies, was that South Africa 
    was violating its obligations under international law by discriminating 
    against a particular kind of patent — pharmaceutical patents. The demand 
    of these governments, with the United States in the lead, was that South 
    Africa respect these patents as it respects any other patent, regardless of 
    any effect on the treatment of AIDS within South Africa. 
    
    We should place the intervention by the United States in context. No doubt 
    patents are not the most important reason that Africans don't have access 
    to drugs. Poverty and the total absence of an effective health care 
    infrastructure matter more. But whether patents are the most important 
    reason or not, the price of drugs has an effect on their demand, and 
    patents affect price. And so, whether massive or mar- ginal, there was an 
    effect from our government's intervention to stop the flow of medications 
    into Africa.
    
    By stopping the flow of HIV treatment into Africa, the United States 
    government was not saving drugs for United States citizens. This is not 
    like wheat (if they eat it, we can't); instead, the flow that the United 
    States intervened to stop was, in effect, a flow of knowledge: information 
    about how to take chemicals that exist within Africa, and turn those 
    chemicals into drugs that would save 15 to 30 million lives.
    """
https://archive.org/stream/free_culture/freeculture_djvu.txt
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by _djo_ on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:28AM (#30587446)
This exact scenario has been repeated with COVID vaccines too.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by BeFlatXIII on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:49AM (#30588433)
More democratic nations ought to have the self-respect to repudiate treaties their fathers ratified that they no longer like.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by SomeHacker44 on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:05AM (#30587257)
Like the treaty where the US guaranteed the territorial integrity of Ukraine against Russia in exchange for denuclearization? Hm.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by HideousKojima on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:44AM (#30588389)
If it didn't get approved by the US Senate (and, hint hint, the Budapest Memorandum didn't) then the treaty is not binding on the US. Other countries need to stop taking anything the US says or promises in international relations seriously until it goes through the senate. And admittedly, the US needs to stop making promises until it's sure it has the needed votes in the senate first.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by pfisherman on Monday March 07, 2022 @11:30AM (#30589778)
You mean the treaty where Russia promised not to invade Ukraine?
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by zajio1am on Monday March 07, 2022 @11:03AM (#30589398)
AFAIK it was not international treaty, just political agreement not ratified by signing countries.