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Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by neverminder on Monday March 07, 2022 @06:29AM (#30586514)
> Leave Ukraine and pay for the war crimes committed there

This is what eventually will happen, but over Putin's dead body most likely. "Live by the sword, die by the sword", that kinda thing, etc. Everybody agrees that by starting this pointless war Putin has painted himself into a corner.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by w_t_payne on Monday March 07, 2022 @06:47AM (#30586645)
And a cornered rat may bite.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by gambiting on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:04AM (#30586764)
A cornered rat is still just a rat.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by ttybird2 on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:10AM (#30586807)
I would be quite scared if I saw a rat holding thousands of nuclear warheads.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by jamincan on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:45AM (#30587088)
If he has thousands of nuclear warheads, he's not just a rat and he's not cornered.

ie. there are still diplomatic ways out of this open to Putin. If he is not open to considering them and feels cornered, it is his own shortsightedness and failing.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by glogla on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:34AM (#30587516)
Who knows if they work. Russians aren't even able to maintain army supply trucks properly.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by denton-scratch on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:12AM (#30587989)
I wonder that too.

It has been said that you should never draw your pistol unless you are going to shoot. I don't know if that's true; but I do think it's unwise to threaten violence unless you are quite sure you are prepared to carry through.

I think Putin is prepared to carry through (he's made the threat more than once). Russia seems to be losing in Ukraine; but they can't be seen to be slinking away with their tail between their legs. So I think there's a good chance Russia will pop a tactical nuke in Ukraine.

For the same reasons, NATO can't be seen to tolerate the popping of tactical nukes in a regional conflict; they would have to retaliate, for fear that their nuclear deterrent be treated as a joke. I haven't any idea how NATO might select their target, though; striking a city would be gross over-reaction, and striking Russians in Ukraine would be rather counterproductive.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by sterlind on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:21PM (#30595426)
> For the same reasons, NATO can't be seen to tolerate the popping of tactical nukes in a regional conflict; they would have to retaliate, for fear that their nuclear deterrent be treated as a joke.

NATO should definitely not respond to nukes with nukes unless Putin drops one on a NATO country. Ukraine is not in NATO. That makes it a first strike, not a retaliatory strike. Putin's propaganda has been that NATO is an aggressor threatening Russia. If NATO strikes Russia in retaliation for a strike on a non-member country that only vindicates him, and you know, leads directly to WWIII

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by denton-scratch on Tuesday March 08, 2022 @05:15AM (#30598361)
> NATO should definitely not respond to nukes with nukes unless Putin drops one on a NATO country.

Hey, I didn't mean to sound like a cheerleader for global thermonuclear war! I'm just observing that the logic of nuclear deterrence calls for a response whoever Russia attacks. If it becomes clear that Russia can nuke anyone it likes as long as they're not in NATO, then it can march into e.g. Georgia or Armenia with a company of conscripts, and take over, declaring that any resistance will be met with nukes.

Suppose Russia pops a small nuke in Ukraine? Really, that's not going to achieve any major military victory. They'd need a few to end the war in Russia's favour. That would result in clouds of fallout afflicting NATO countries. At some point you'd have to say "that's enough". But at what point? After two? A dozen? Only after the first megaton city-flattener?

I was a member of CND for a year, back in the 80's. I still favour unilateral disarmament. I quit not because I didn't support the goals, but because I was shocked at the political infighting I observed at the Annual General Meeting.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by criddell on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:53AM (#30587756)
95% of them could be broken and it's still a scary thought.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by notpachet on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:37AM (#30588294)
Hopefully it ends up being more akin to "live by the sword, die by the word".
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by neverminder on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:48AM (#30588418)
The West already tried to talk Putin to death. That didn't seem to work.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by hericium on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:11AM (#30586814)
> Everybody agrees that by starting this pointless war Putin has painted himself into a corner.

Not everybody. The "NATO pushed Putin into corner by inviting Ukraine" theorem is still alive. In any way, cornered Putin is angry Putin and angry Putin is dangerous and may be unpredictable.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by sorenjan on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:07AM (#30587942)
The idea that NATO's expansion east is what pushed Russia to invade Ukraine is frankly ridiculous. I can see how it's problematic for them, and they did bring it up before the invasion, but that was mainly more lies, the war had already been planned and decided months ago.

Putin has said that Ukraine is a historical mistake, and laments the dissolution of the Soviet union. This war is because he want's to create a larger Russian empire, not a preemptive strike for self defense.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by acdha on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:12AM (#30588000)
It's also catastrophically self-fulfilling: it's not like the eastern NATO members joined on a whim, they worked hard to make the case for it because they knew what living next to Russia meant and didn't want to be next. The war of conquest in Ukraine has done more to encourage continued NATO expansion than everything the older members have done in decades combined.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by sorenjan on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:41AM (#30588349)
Exactly. The only reason NATO isn't in Ukraine and kicking the invaders out right now is because Ukraine isn't a NATO member. Meanwhile, NATO has been very clear about defending every inch of their member's territory. That's a very convincing argument for Russia's neighboring countries. I live in one of them, and I've been against a NATO membership until now, because I ruled out the possibility of war in Europe in my lifetime. I was wrong.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by acdha on Monday March 07, 2022 @11:37AM (#30589902)
You had plenty of company in that mistaken assumption, sadly, and I'm afraid to ask how many other people will pay the price before it's over.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by UnFleshedOne on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:40PM (#30595197)
I'm no fan of the invasion, but "the war had already been planned and decided months ago" is not an argument you might think it is -- NATO stuff was going on pretty much since USSR dissolution, and 2014 stuff with Crimea was first act in the same war, in response to regime change on Ukraine and some progress in shelf oil development there that threatened Russia's hold on EU markets.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by CoastalCoder on Monday March 07, 2022 @07:37AM (#30587023)
I've heard that claim as well, but I don't know enough to judge it.

Do you of a good source that covers the topic?

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by NonEUCitizen on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:06AM (#30587268)
A 2015 talk by John Mearsheimer from the University of Chicago discusses the "NATO pushed Putin into corner by inviting Ukraine" angle. Mearsheimer calls himself a "realist."

https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by _djo_ on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:44AM (#30588381)
Mearsheimer completely ignores the agency of small European countries and makes the classic IR mistake of assuming that what might be 'rational' behaviour for a state in a Realist sense is also correct behaviour.

You can use Realism to predict that Russia would eventually try to regain the power it lost over Eastern Europe and the Baltics with the dissolution of the USSR. In fact that very understanding and fear is precisely why countries in Eastern Europe and the Baltics pushed so hard to join NATO and the EU, because they predicted that would happen.

But that doesn't make Russia's actions the right move, either legally or morally. They have agency too and could always have made the choice to not to try to act like an empire with violent hegemony over their neighbours.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by NonEUCitizen on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:56AM (#30588506)
1. I did not hear him equate realist with moral in that talk. Most people would consider the realist school to be amoral. (I advocate neither)

2. "NATO pushed..." does not imply Russia is right. Russia is wrong, legally and morally, but it can be simultaneously true that NATO pushed Russia.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by _djo_ on Monday March 07, 2022 @10:00AM (#30588546)
1. He has in other talks, and he has used it as a way to explain away Russia's actions. As though they're an actor with no agency that can only react.

2. "NATO pushed" is deceptive framing. The countries that joined NATO after 1991 had to lobby hard over many years to get NATO members to agree to expand. Even then the process took forever with MAPs and other interim steps each designed to slow the process down.

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by sidibe on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:52AM (#30588459)
These people believe that only the USA makes real decisions out of free will and everything else is only a consequence of those decisions or others uncontrollable reactions to those decisions. Apparently being an expert in geopolitics is mainly just about having a story and sticking to it through thick and thin.
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by gbuk2013 on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:04AM (#30587248)
First 25 mins of https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbj1AR_aAcE is a good start
Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by GekkePrutser on Monday March 07, 2022 @09:04AM (#30587908)
NATO was much more focused on China as a potential future enemy though. Until Putin put himself back on the map as an agressor most EU countries were spending as little on defense as they could get away with. I feel this is more of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

No wonder China is gleefully standing by. They're just biding their time. When 2 dogs fight over a bone...

Re:Russia to legalize software piracy by krzyk on Monday March 07, 2022 @08:06AM (#30587266)
Russia has a long history of "fast succession", if some military guy finds Putin behavior hurting to its business, Putin will suddenly catch covid and die.