Hypothetically should Americans stop paying taxes? Their government has a history of arming extremists/conflicts worldwide.

I understand the Ukrainian invasion is sickening/a travesty but I struggle to square what appears to be an underlying hypocrisy.

Indeed. And given the state of democracy in Russia and in the US (for now), you could argue that the average US citizen bears more responsibility for the actions of the US government over the last decades than the average Russian for the actions of the Russian government.

I know at least one person who, around the time of the Iraq war, mostly stopped working and no longer pays taxes. It can be done, but it's a pretty serious lifestyle choice.

While there's a lot to criticize about US foreign policy, invading a western nation with a democratically elected government isn't on the list. You really can't sympathize with Saddam Hussein or the Taliban. I wouldn't (and didn't) stop paying taxes over it.

If the US government invaded Mexico or Canada, I might.

Civil disobedience is a personal decision. Judging other people on their decision to practice it is also personal.

In the U.S. it is even coded into the Declaration of Independence.

Quakers in the United States have been lobbying for this for decades. It has no hope of succeeding but, hey, at least they're trying.

Taxes stopped supporting war in the US a long ago because people don’t like paying for wars they don’t support. The “department of defense” finances its wars by borrowing from the FED. These credit card wars inflate the money supply instead and although everyone still loses its a sneaky way to steal money from people.

Specifically Re: hypocrisy. The scale of the issue is the crux to the yes/no answer to your question. Plenty of people drew the line to choose "yes" for the US war efforts in the past. I personally do not believe it would be justified right now.

Yeah but the main point is America mostly doesn't kill Europeans, certainly not western(ised) ones.

So you are saying it’s ok to kill people with some other skin color or language, like, Iraqi people for example?

No, it's not OK, but the drive that some people have to make it an issue of skin color is misguided. It's not skin color, it's relevance. Equally cruel, but still different.

The world is organized by a small group of countries and power blocks that are in charge, whilst the other 90% has no meaningful economical or military relevance. This in no way makes it "more OK" to do harm, I'm just saying the selector is relevance, not race.

Nobody remembers Iraq anymore and the million dead Iraqis, the destroyed country, the resulting vacuum that produced ISIS, the destruction of Syria, and all under false pretense. Oh, and Afghanistan, that unconquerable land that makes a mockery of all its invaders. Or Libya. Or Arab Spring. Or... And these are just the last 20 years.

Of course, Putin should be condemned, but it is interesting how nobody held the US to a similar standard.

Well, more than a few of those conquests were prevented by Russia. Assad wasn't spared because of his tactical genius. The calculus might change for a few regime changes this year...

Given that Russia has VAT, the only way for Russians to stop paying taxes is to starve to death.

There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death.

Protesting the war is one of them. Leaving is another.

Being complicit and dying are not the only two options.

An average Russian can't just pack up bags and leave willy-nilly. Few countries will issue a visa for anything other than tourism or short-term business. If one has skills that are in demand (say, IT), it's easier - but most people don't have those skills.

I fail to see how protesting the war is a "way to not pay Russian taxes". Unless you specifically mean refusing to pay taxes to protest the war, which would go about as well in Russia as it would in US. Well, except that, once you get arrested, the cops are likely to "entertain" themselves by e.g. putting a gas mask on you and squeezing the hose. Or shoving a bottle into your anus. Or just beating you with rubber batons until you pass out.

The protesting issue you describe is a tragedy of commons. Mass denial of global services to Russian people is exactly the incentive for them to overcome it.

> There are multiple ways to not pay Russian taxes that go towards war effort against Ukraine besides starving to death. Protesting the war is one of them.

Do stores refund your VAT if you have a protest sign or something?

I feel insulted by your attempt to play dumb. Protesting is a way to stop the money you already paid from going towards the war.

Protests in Russia are not a way to stop the government from doing anything. Haven't been for over a decade.

That is debatable. Worked in Ukraine, I don't see what is so different about Russia, especially now when a lot of people understand that Putin is not just an authoritarian, but a completely deranged one.

Ukraine was never an authoritarian country, not even under Yanukovich. He tried to go there after the protests started, and the rest is history.

Russia has been an authoritarian country since 2011 at the very least - and arguably longer, just of a softer variety prior to that - when the regime crushed the largest protest in Putin's times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932013_Russian_prot...). By now, it has a special branch of internal armed forces - National Guard / Rosgvardia - which is used primarily against protesters.

So yes, there's a big difference in practice.

Well, yes it is obviously different, but it is a weak proof for impossibly of change via protest.

I did not assert impossibility of change via protest. Only that, given where Russia is now, it would have to be violent, armed protest. And you're not going to get people engaged in that with economic sanctions, no matter how severe.

Russia tax income is less than $20B. But income from selling gas/oil is $80B, plus about same from other types of resource export. So if we talk about not paying taxes it's the Europe who buys that gas should stop buying it, that would make much bigger effect.

Not being EU citizen, I am in no position to tell them to stop, though personally I definitely would.

Perhaps it's not like the US where you stop paying taxes and no one even mentions it for several years. Then you get a slap-on-the-wrist fine and have to pay back taxes.

Indeed. They pay taxes at the source in Russia, so that humans get to know and discuss their net salary only.

It's dehumanizing and depoliticizing and should be changed once Putin is out of power.

Not sure what you're talking about, it was the same when I worked in the UK - unless you switch to self-employment, your employer pays taxes for you and you just get the net salary.

This is not specific to Russia. It's also not even close to dehumanizing. Locally, my employer handles the taxes from my income. I get both numbers on the payslips and get an annual national summary of "what were my taxes spent on".

What.. here in the UK if you're employed then you do not do tax returns, it's automatically deducted from your salary.. and businesses charge VAT at point of sale.. Nothing "dehumanizing and depoliticizing" about it, in fact I wouldn't ever want to change it. Only those with self-employed income complete tax returns, which is way more efficient.

Same in the Netherlands.

I never knew there were so many dehumanizing regimes in Europe!

In Russia your employer pays taxes for you whether you want it or not. You don't even know how much.