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Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by wyldfire on Saturday February 26, 2022 @12:33PM (#30479698)
I'm a big Linux fan so having realtime support in Linux would be great. But in the absence of that, Zephyr RTOS is another great open source option with some Linux kernel inspiration.

[1] https://www.zephyrproject.org/

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by joezydeco on Saturday February 26, 2022 @01:16PM (#30480135)
Ah, Zephyr. Another project that Intel had and then let go.

Intel is on my list, alongside Google, under the category of "companies that do one great thing, everything else is a disposable experiment that is probably already cancelled".

Proceed at your own peril with the Linutronix stuff.

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by akira2501 on Saturday February 26, 2022 @03:45PM (#30481801)
Cynically.. "everything else is a move designed to foul a market and disrupt a potential competitor that is then cancelled as soon as it's no longer needed."
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by froh on Saturday February 26, 2022 @01:35PM (#30480331)
What do you mean "let go"? Zephyr is supported by both Intel and linaro/arm.

I wonder about the BOM cost of Intel vs arm though, in € per "performance"? Or what else is the root cause of Intel not getting a foothold in bedded?

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday February 26, 2022 @08:02PM (#30484160)
Intel had the top performing ARM platform with StrongARM/Xscale. They threw it away. They had their legacy embedded platforms that were popular. They threw it away. Edison could have been a compelling gateway drug for embedded Atom products. They crippled it from the start and threw it away. The root cause is MBAs making bad decisions for short term gains.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by lizknope on Saturday February 26, 2022 @10:26PM (#30485099)
Intel did not throw it away. They sold the business unit to Marvell for $600 million.

I was working for a different CPU company at the time but the thought was by doing this it would allow Intel to focus on the sales and marketing of the Atom and push x86 everywhere rather than have a mixed x86 / ARM marketing message.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XScale

On June 27, 2006, the sale of Intel's XScale PXA mobile processor assets was announced. Intel agreed to sell the XScale PXA business to Marvell Technology Group for an estimated $600 million in cash and the assumption of unspecified liabilities. The move was intended to permit Intel to focus its resources on its core x86 and server businesses.

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by joezydeco on Sunday February 27, 2022 @11:18AM (#30489731)
The move was intended to permit Intel to focus its resources on its core x86 and server businesses.

And that's where Intel continually loses out on markets because the x86 cash firehose is too good.

The XScale sale gained them $600MM, but what did they lose by being shut out of the mobile processor market for the next decade onward?

There are 2 billion iPhones on the planet somewhere and not a single one has an Intel application processor.

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by joezydeco on Saturday February 26, 2022 @01:42PM (#30480411)
Zephyr started out as a WindRiver acquisition. Then Intel bought WindRiver. Then Intel sold it off.

TLDR: Intel had a foothold in embedded/realtime operating systems and let it go.

Wanna talk about XScale? Intel had an ARM license and then decided, out of the blue, to sell the product line off.

TLDR: Intel had a foothold in low-power ARM platforms and let it go.

I never went near an Edison board so I don't even address that one. And now they're doing RISC-V. Don't go near it.

So, your question is "what is the root cause of Intel not getting a foothold in (em)bedded"? The answer is Intel itself.

Yes, I know they contribute to LF and whatnot. The point is that staking your embedded development pipeline on Intel itself is something I would never do (again). And I worked with Zephyr post-Intel, it wasn't a great system. I hope it's improved since then.

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by mook on Saturday February 26, 2022 @05:40PM (#30482679)
Was XScale derived from StrongARM which was acquired from DEC? Because given the examples it sounds like "trust Intel to wind down acquisitions".

Of course, that still means one would be wary of betting on them in areas that aren't already well established…

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by pjmlp on Saturday February 26, 2022 @06:09PM (#30482962)
It was indeed.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by dboreham on Saturday February 26, 2022 @03:56PM (#30481884)
All very reasonable decisions if you're an MBA, I'm sure.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by froh on Monday February 28, 2022 @12:58PM (#30502818)
Clayton Christensen plays a melancholic theme song on his angels harp to "the innovators dilemma"

Perfectly summarizes the sibling commenta on ever ongoing divestments from embedded opportunities.

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by wyldfire on Saturday February 26, 2022 @01:40PM (#30480383)
It doesn't strike me as abandoned. So if they no longer act as a curator while its community thrives, so what? Intel contributes to LF btw, that's some real support too.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by joezydeco on Saturday February 26, 2022 @06:35PM (#30483255)
Intel had an opportunity to develop Zephyr as a usable RTOS, internally* and externally. If they thought that the technology was compelling, why did they let it go?

*(Intel's Management Engine is still around, running....Minix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iffTJ1vPCSo)

Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by ClumsyPilot on Saturday February 26, 2022 @10:22PM (#30485071)
Sight, Owner of several Intel Edison projects here, what a waste!
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by mrtweetyhack on Saturday February 26, 2022 @02:38PM (#30481034)
Companies are in it to make money. If it is not going anywhere, they drop it. You and I do that all the time. I have dozens of dead projects.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by bipson on Saturday February 26, 2022 @01:08PM (#30480048)
Zephyr has nothing to do with the Linux Kernel -- especially from a technical standpoint. It is a project that is under the umbrella of the Linux Foundation, that's all.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by wyldfire on Saturday February 26, 2022 @01:34PM (#30480323)
Sorry I didn't mean to suggest that its design took inspiration from the kernel. but adjacent features like Kconfig it does.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by elcritch on Saturday February 26, 2022 @02:40PM (#30481059)
Much of the core kernel elements definitely follow Linux kernel conventions as well. For example the `eventfd` api was copied from Linux and is quite handy. The POSIX compatibility layer constants match those in Linux, etc. The style guide is also borrowed from Linux.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by joezydeco on Sunday February 27, 2022 @02:27PM (#30491644)
And then there is stuff in Zephyr like Devicetree, which is designed to look familiar to Linux users but operates in a completely different and broken manner.
Re:Intel energizes decades-old real-time Linux kernel project by elcritch on Saturday February 26, 2022 @02:49PM (#30481146)
It’s also good to note that it’s really the only RTOS with a _real_ open source community and that has support from multiple hardware vendors. FreeRTOS is mostly whatever Amazon decides to publish. Mbed is kinda open but mostly driven by ARM. Zephyr has a community governance based on Linux’s.