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Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by rmk on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:32PM (#30459138)
Absolutely. But if a NATO member is attacked, then member states are obligated to come to the member's aid. It's essentially tantamount to saying, if you are at war with a NATO member, you are at war with the whole bloc, which includes USA, UK, France (somewhat in/out member over the decades), Germany, Turkey, and so on. It's a formidable group that acts as a deterrent to any would-be aggressor.

The US is not obligated to intervene in Ukraine, plain and simple. The US has a strategic partnership with Ukraine, I think, but it's not an ally. https://www.defense.gov/News/Feature-Stories/Story/Article/1... https://www.state.gov/u-s-ukraine-charter-on-strategic-partn...

Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by _puk on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:53PM (#30459411)
The scary thing is if NATO decide to get involved, and it turns into war between NATO and Russia, then the security of the Baltic States plummets.

Currently, as NATO members, they are not likely to be attacked, but if NATO declares war then that deterrent is gone.

Hopefully not a likely scenario, but who knows.. There's been a lot of tension lately, especially with the likes of Belarus bussing migrants across the border into Lithuania etc, but no idea where this will end.

Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by rmk on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:55PM (#30459429)
NATO is a defensive alliance, so there has to be a provocation for them to act.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by aszen on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:06PM (#30459572)
Not necessarily see their previous involvement in conflicts. What kind of defence was nato doing in Afghanistan
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by marvin on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:35PM (#30459920)
The attack on Afghanistan was literally an invocation of NATO's Article 5, the only time this has happened:

"Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked."

So, the 9/11 attacks were considered an armed attack on the United States, and the alliance deemed it necessary to overthrow the Taliban in order to prevent Al-Qaeda from perpetrating similar attacks again.

One can disagree with the rationale behind the decision, or the cost-benefit ratio. But it did follow the protocols of the alliance.

Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by aszen on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:51PM (#30460108)
I think it's very naive to think that us invaded afganistan to protect itself or prevent similar attacks. It was pure irrational vengeance by bush. It may follow their protocols but by no means you can consider invading and occupying a foreign country for 20 years as defensive. In effect u cannot call nato a defensive organization by their involvement in wars where no defense was required
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by GavinMcG on Thursday February 24, 2022 @05:25PM (#30461173)
You're looking at it in retrospect, but decisions to involve NATO in responding to an attack on a member aren't made with the benefit of hindsight.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by jgraettinger1 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @05:33PM (#30461260)
> us invaded afganistan to protect itself

... is a very different thing than ...

> occupying a foreign country for 20 years

When NATO invaded the towers were still smoking, the war-on-terror intelligence apparatus had yet to be built, and we (I) had no idea whether another attack was forthcoming. It felt pretty damn reasonable at the time.

Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by bluejekyll on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:23PM (#30459781)
Whether you believe it was right or wrong to get involved in Afghanistan, NATO’s involvement there (not Iraq) was a direct response to the 9/11 attacks and the government (at the time) of Afghanistan’s refusing to allow the US to directly target the group responsible that was based there.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by aszen on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:38PM (#30459968)
Their response was invading a country for 20 years, you can hardly count it as defensive. Invading afghanistan was always about more than 9/11, it was far more than that.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by epgui on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:52PM (#30460116)
The difference between a defensive response and an offensive is not how long it lasts.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by favorited on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:22PM (#30459769)
The idea was that the Taliban was harboring Al-Qaeda, so NATO members were assisting the US in response to the 9/11 attacks.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by age_of_stone on Friday February 25, 2022 @04:04AM (#30465160)
Apparently, the department of defense doesn't need a provocation for them to act.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by wazoox on Thursday February 24, 2022 @04:16PM (#30460403)
Like in Libya in 2011? In Kosovo in 1999? This fairy tale has been dead for decades now.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by Arubis on Thursday February 24, 2022 @02:45PM (#30459297)
> if a NATO member is attacked, then member states are obligated to come to the member's aid. It's essentially tantamount to saying, if you are at war with a NATO member, you are at war with the whole bloc,

This is the deterrent—and it also rhymes with the Triple Entente v. Triple Alliance tensions that set off the Great War.

Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by throw10920 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @06:01PM (#30461536)
> if a NATO member is attacked, then member states are obligated to come to the member's aid

Are they really?

> So while the use of armed force is one way to respond to aggression, the NATO has several options, for example:

> Nothing. They might decide that the best way to "restore and maintain security" is to just let the attacker have that country.

https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/32686

Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by mrep on Thursday February 24, 2022 @10:34PM (#30463440)
Well, in this case, Biden vowed to defend ‘Every Inch’ of NATO Territory so I don't think we have to worry about that.
Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by ggreg84 on Thursday February 24, 2022 @03:24PM (#30459789)
Note that every member can decide how it aids.

Germany aid to Ukraine was to send them 5k helmets.

Those helmets didn't do anything against Russia's missiles.

---

That is, attacking a member of NATO just means that all other members must help it, but how they help, is up to them, and that help can be just a pat in the back.

Re:Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces by toyg on Thursday February 24, 2022 @05:47PM (#30461423)
Turkey has complained for years that NATO would be required to help them with this or that conflict in the area, and it didn't.

In the end, there is no supranational tribunal for military allegiances - in matters of conflict, Hobbes' jungle is still very much there.