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Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by Gareth321 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:06AM (#30441793)
>Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value.

This is literally impossible in anything other than rote manual labour. Even then, I'm not convinced this is possible.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by mhoad on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:21AM (#30441969)
I don’t know this sounds like it maps to a SQL query to me assuming you use consistent job titles and possibly the concept of “grades” e.g Level 1 Software Engineer
Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by Gareth321 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:45AM (#30442276)
I'm glad you related it to my industry because I can assure you that not every L3 in Google contributes the same value to the company. They have vastly different backgrounds, education, experience, and aptitudes. Some are willing to work 80 hour weeks. Some aren't. Some are very skilled in technologies which aren't in-demand and don't currently generate a lot of value for Google. Some work on projects which generate a lot of value for Google. Some have excellent qualifications but little experience. Some have lots of experience but no qualifications. Some are extroverts and some are introverts. Some are great at communicating their thoughts and ideas. Some aren't. Some are grumpy and surly. Some are super friendly.

There are thousands and thousands of ways in which an L3 is not the same as another L3, and I promise you, no two L3s generate exactly the same value to Google.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by mhoad on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @11:17AM (#30442698)
As I said in another comment though surely this is the precise reason for bonus structures no?

Where you as the business owner / operator can both reward the above and beyond efforts and try to incentivise more of it in the future.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:33AM (#30442109)
Err, no it's not, big engineering firms (google, facebook, etc) have formalized job titles and 'ranks' and provide a clear path for advancement - and they publish pay ranges for those titles/ranks.
Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by Gareth321 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:46AM (#30442287)
I will paste the same reply to the other, similar comment:

I'm glad you related it to my industry because I can assure you that not every L3 in Google contributes the same value to the company. They have vastly different backgrounds, education, experience, and aptitudes. Some are willing to work 80 hour weeks. Some aren't. Some are very skilled in technologies which aren't in-demand and don't currently generate a lot of value for Google. Some work on projects which generate a lot of value for Google. Some have excellent qualifications but little experience. Some have lots of experience but no qualifications. Some are extroverts and some are introverts. Some are great at communicating their thoughts and ideas. Some aren't. Some are grumpy and surly. Some are super friendly.

There are thousands and thousands of ways in which an L3 is not the same as another L3, and I promise you, no two L3s generate exactly the same value to Google. This is why pay at each level is in a range, so that these individual factors can be considered. This is compounded by the fact that there are L3s with more experience and/or qualifications than L5s. This is far from an objective comparison of an employees value generation.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by maerF0x0 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @11:22AM (#30442754)
The only way I've seen this been well handled is to break out the value adding concepts to "bonuses" or add'l comp for details like:

"we give people and extra $24k per year if they do oncall rotation" and we give "x% more to those who work more and contribute more"

otherwise once it becomes public it turns into infighting of "we're both L3s, why do they get more?" (ignoring that one of them leaves early 2-3x a week to care for their child, or is a single worker with nothing better to do than contribute and thus does more than others) ...

They're simple concepts, but hard to get people to be grown ups about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo

Also people psychologically overestimate their contributions and underestimate others... Has a lot of application in both the workplace and in intimate relationships.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by RHSeeger on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @01:04PM (#30444172)
But putting a lot of that money into bonuses completely defeats the point of having published salary ranges. It's really no different than having no bonuses, but a larger range for each salary bracket. And nobody wants companies to post a salary range for a position where the low and high ends are widely disparate; it has a similar value to not posting the range at all.
Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by maerF0x0 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @04:38PM (#30446851)
>position where the low and high ends are widely disparate;

This is more or less what I've observed in practice in Colorado. The range is quite high, and it excludes nearly 50% of real total comp due to equity, benefits, etc that are variably applied.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by pnutjam on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @02:31PM (#30445232)
You know it's illegal to discriminate based on the family status of a worker; which is exactly what you're describing.

Jobs should have clear defined goals and workaholics should not be able to ruin it for everyone else.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by maerF0x0 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @04:37PM (#30446831)
you're assuming a whole crap ton of things not said here
Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by EE84M3i on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:39AM (#30442196)
>they publish pay ranges for those titles/ranks.

They do? I'd love to see that if you have a link.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by bruckie on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @11:57AM (#30443193)
Colorado requires disclosure of base salary, so you can look at Colorado job listings at https://google.com/careers to get a ballpark idea. This works for other large companies, too.

Of course, pay varies by location, and compensation includes more than just base salary, but it will give you a starting point.

Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by ncpa-cpl on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @12:05PM (#30443330)
Estonia does that too. Job posts are required to publish a pay range and it is very useful to help decide if a job is financially interesting or not.
Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by Gareth321 on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @10:47AM (#30442303)
I don't think they publish it publicly, but the data is available based on many different sources. This is one such aggregate: https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engi...
Re:EU to mandate public salary information for all job posti... by mellavora on Wednesday February 23, 2022 @12:01PM (#30443264)
> they publish pay ranges for those titles/ranks.

if it isn't public, then it isn't published.

I'm a fan of Levels.FYI, but you notice the rather large standard deviations for a number of pay grades, and it is self-reported which means the sample may not be representative.

and I haven't found anything better than levels.fyi