News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by whalesalad on Sunday February 20, 2022 @10:18PM (#30411602)
Google tag manager in my experience is a script executed by the browser. Then it installs itself in the page and performs the inner payload of user script insertions. It’s a Trojan horse, really. You can block Google tag manager’s embed scripts. I wasn’t aware of a backend integration but it’s certainly possible.

Regardless, I use a DNS based ad blocker (pihole) and it takes care of all this stuff. I occasionally need to turn it off or whitelist domains (like Google tag manager) for client work, but normally I have it blocked.

Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by chrisseaton on Sunday February 20, 2022 @10:19PM (#30411608)
> Google tag manager in my experience is a script executed by the browser.

Isn't the whole point of this new change that it runs server-side, using a proxy that you install on the website so it uses the same domain?

> Regardless, I use a DNS based ad blocker

But it's the same domain name isn't it?

Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by lmkg on Sunday February 20, 2022 @10:31PM (#30411668)
A Server-Side GTM container compliments a client-side container, it does not fully replace it.

Some processing happens on the server, but event data must still be sent to the server-side container first. For now, the "standard" deployment of a server-side is that it receives hits directly from the browser, orchestrated by a traditional client-side container. So the client-side script is still there, just less bloated.

The server-side container has built-in facilities for serving up the client-side container script. Meaning that domain-name blocking will not prevent this. DNS-based also has some issues: Server-Side Containers run in App Engine, blocking them basically means blocking anything running on GCP.

Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by pixeldetracking on Monday February 21, 2022 @08:04AM (#30415448)
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by x0x0 on Sunday February 20, 2022 @11:22PM (#30411954)
Current GTM, configured (via the server UI) to inject tracker X:

gtm javascript loads, pulls down the config, injects tracker X javascript into the browser

new gtm:

gtm javascript loads, pulls down config, streams events to google servers to fan out to tracker X as configured

So blocking gtm.js off tagmanager.google.com / www.googletagmanager.com / the various other domains still blocks all gtm injected tags.

The tl;dr is they're become much closer to segment -- which does the data fanout internally to segment. But they should still be straightforward to block.

Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by volderette on Monday February 21, 2022 @01:24AM (#30412501)
This is not how GTM server side works. There is not a single call to Google domains from the client, when GTM server side is set up to its fullest. The config (gtm.js) will be loaded from my subdomain and not googletagmanager.com. Also gtm.js can be renamed.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by x0x0 on Monday February 21, 2022 @03:16AM (#30413165)
Per the docs here [1], that is not true. You continue to load gtag.js off the googletagmanager.com domain; subsequent events can flow to a custom domain.

[1] https://developers.google.com/tag-platform/tag-manager/serve...

Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by xigoi on Monday February 21, 2022 @02:13AM (#30412750)
Couldn't you still recognize the script by its content?
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by freedomben on Monday February 21, 2022 @03:22AM (#30413195)
No because the script contents can change from site to site. Maintaining an index for every site would get you closer, but individual sites can trivially tweak things to break fingerprinting as often as they want. Even on every request.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by shafyy on Monday February 21, 2022 @02:43AM (#30412954)
Exactly, this is already done for tracking scripts, since it's commong to use proxies to load tracking scripts.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by ComodoHacker on Monday February 21, 2022 @02:38AM (#30412917)
Not with dynamic obfuscation.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by romeoblade on Sunday February 20, 2022 @10:44PM (#30411748)
You missed the part where they recommend changing the script's name as well, add in changing a few variable/function names in the script and even matching the hash of the script itself would be useless. On top of them recommending using a sub domain with an A/AAAA record so its first party.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by Ajedi32 on Sunday February 20, 2022 @11:01PM (#30411837)
Worst-case you parse the script and block it if the AST is too similar.

There are a million ways to detect and block this sort of thing when you control the client. Yes, it's harder than just blackholing a whole domain, but it's hardly impossible.

Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by pixeldetracking on Monday February 21, 2022 @08:05AM (#30415458)
yes, french article is updated, but this english translation is quite old here it is: https://www.simoahava.com/analytics/custom-gtm-loader-server...
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by seandoe on Sunday February 20, 2022 @10:30PM (#30411661)
You missed the same domain part. How are you going to block a request when you don't know the url?
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by shafyy on Monday February 21, 2022 @02:44AM (#30412958)
You check the loaded script itself to see if it matches an expected pattern.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by seandoe on Monday February 21, 2022 @08:29PM (#30423031)
Does there need to be a loaded script with a certain fingerprint? What if they are just passing data from the browser to some random endpoint? I'm not sure, just thoughts.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by shafyy on Tuesday February 22, 2022 @02:41AM (#30425058)
There needs to be a script because the tracking still happens client-side and there will be some logic involved. The only way to avoid being blocked by the browser is to track server-side.
Re:Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020) by HWR_14 on Sunday February 20, 2022 @11:51PM (#30412090)
The point is that DNS ad blocking is being worked around with this new system, because it looks like part of the site you're on. Also, that google is encouraging modifying the JS to prevent automated tools from blocking the javascript.