Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on less powerful machines?

Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by sirwhinesalot on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:33PM (#30379597)

I wouldn't call Discord snappy, not even close, Telegram is way snappier for example... But Teams is certainly on another league (for the worse).

VSCode isn't that snappy either but it's decent enough. If every Electron app was like that "It's slow because it's Electron" wouldn't be such a meme.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by musicale on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:35PM (#30379625)

VSCode is clunky but almost usable. I like that it's multiplatform, free, and relatively capable, but I dislike its clunky and very non-snappy user experience.

VSCode really needs better competition than clunky Java IDEs from the likes of JetBrains or Eclipse or platform-specific native IDEs like Xcode.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by sirwhinesalot on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:53PM (#30379818)

Xcode is abysmal, I would honestly feel sorry for Apple devs if not for how much money they make. Last time I used it even autocompletion was broken (it would write the text 1 character ahead).

But yeah there's clearly room for a snappier LSP-based editor, preferably one with a toolbar.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by herbturbo on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:15PM (#30380045)

I've been using Xcode every working day for over 12 years and on the whole it has been excellent. It definitely has some quirks but it is a feature rich workhorse.

It has integrated docs, simulators, unit/UI test functionality inc coverage reports, live UI debugging, tons of profiling tools, and I can use it to upload my apps straight to App Store Connect. Starting with XCode 13 I also have built in CI/CD. I can build, profile, test and deploy a whole app on multiple platforms from scratch with it. And its free.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by sirwhinesalot on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:41PM (#30380290)

Every release of Xcode has been a buggy mess. Every. Single. One. It certainly has lots of features but I'd much rather it had less features and more polish. The worst sin a tool can make is to be unreliable and that's the best word I can use to describe Xcode.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by alimov on Thursday February 17, 2022 @08:20PM (#30381080)

“Every. Single. One.” There have been some bugs here and there, but it’s really not the mess you’re claiming it to be.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by sirwhinesalot on Friday February 18, 2022 @03:57AM (#30383549)

The Apple App Store likes to show reviews that are tied to a country, but at least for the ones I see Xcode sits at a proud 2.6 stars, with hundreds of 1 star reviews complaining about bugs and crashes.

Certainly reflects my experience as well. When the text editor of a development environment doesn't work right, I mean, shouldn't that be job number 1? Search google for "Xcode bugs", you'll see thread after thread of complaints.

I can find major complaints of bugs and crashes going all the way from 9 years ago to the latest Xcode release, no other development environment has this many complaints. It is by far the most buggy and crash prone development environment available today. People _happily_ pay for AppCode for a reason.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by hackerfromthefu on Friday February 18, 2022 @10:09AM (#30386676)

You're right, XCode is full of bugs are here AND there.

Ideally it would be here OR there, ie much less of them!

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by jamil7 on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:05AM (#30382923)

The last few are actually alright but there did seem to a be period where it broke every release and dropped highlighting and completion as sourcekit would crap out. Word is internal apple devs were also annoyed and complaining frequently.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by alimov on Thursday February 17, 2022 @08:17PM (#30381062)

I love Xcode and wish it offered support for more languages.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by seanw444 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:14PM (#30380624)

Hence why people still prefer to use Emacs and Vim.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by seizeheures on Friday February 18, 2022 @08:31AM (#30385459)

If you’re talking about Telegram Desktop it’s written in C++ with Qt for the UI, I don’t think it’s even really comparable to Discord in that regard

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by ksec on Friday February 18, 2022 @12:31AM (#30382456)

VSCode was only praised because it was compared to other Electron apps and Atom. It surely is fast enough. But it isn't best of Native Apps fast. Sublime, Coda, or BBText. And again everything is relative. For those who went through some DOS minimal latency era even the so called fast Native Apps today is barely on par.

That said the bar for different people varied a lot. I am latency sensitive.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by pjmlp on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:08AM (#30384333)

I donate to Sublime, even though I hardly use it, because VSCode really needs proper competition to stay in business.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by bobobob420 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @11:07PM (#30382031)

You know how far we've fallen when we consider VSCode or Discord desktop apps with good performance

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by hackerfromthefu on Friday February 18, 2022 @10:10AM (#30386691)

Truth! Delphi had this all sorted out 20 years ago.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by jamil7 on Friday February 18, 2022 @01:56AM (#30382882)

> It's fast as shit

Why does this keep being said about VSCode? Electron has it’s benefits and so does VSCode but it’s in no way fast or “fast as shit” as far as editors and even IDEs go, sorry but it’s slow.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by bodge5000 on Friday February 18, 2022 @07:37AM (#30384971)

YMMV but I'd never describe vscode as slow. Maybe not fast either, but pretty much normal. I've never noticed much about its speed, which would imply its not blindingly fast or painfully slow, just normal

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by brimble on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:29PM (#30379556)

Discord's slow and heavy and glitches or crashes constantly. My group of friends landed on it for some activities over the pandemic, because most of the other options were on-balance worse for what we needed, but it's heavy and not high-quality.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by tehbeard on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:49PM (#30379772)

... Ok I have to know what else is running on your PC because aside from needing to kick it once or twice when there was a major outage to get back in, it's been smooth.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by brimble on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:04PM (#30379930)

Not just me, all ~8 of us using it. Mac and Windows both. Every single session (2-3 hours, usually) at least one person's client simply crashes. [EDIT] more typically, it's like one crash every 30-45 minutes, but I don't think we've ever made it through without at least one crash.

[EDIT AGAIN] I'd guesstimate its person-hour-of-use crash rate at at least 20x that of Slack, from what I've seen. Maybe quite a bit higher.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by throw10920 on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:20PM (#30473053)

Not everyone has a Core i7 made two years ago. Discord takes 10 seconds to start up on my unloaded Core i5-6200u and a full 30 seconds when I'm playing a video game. Mumble, which is not written in Electron, starts up in 2-4 seconds while playing a game.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by smaudet on Thursday February 17, 2022 @11:56PM (#30382280)

Chat needs like 100mb tops to function...discord comes in im the half gig range that serious AAA games used to fall into 10 years ago, nevermind the abominable snowman Teams...

Once you run more than one chat in Discord even on recent PCs you see the suck.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by throw10920 on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:23PM (#30473086)

> Microsoft's own VSCode is considered the gold standard of how to do Electron apps well. It's fast as shit, assuming you're not opening huge files.

It takes 10-15 seconds to start up on my work machine. That's not "fast as shit" by any stretch of the imagination.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by pjmlp on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:06AM (#30384320)

VSCode is only usable, because in reality many plugins are external processes written in a mix of C++, Go and Rust.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by iqanq on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:35PM (#30379614)

Discord is snappy? Is this the level of desktop applications in 2022? :P

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by toyg on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:25PM (#30380136)

Sadly yes.

And you can blame all the fuckers who ran to Slack and VSCode, for it. Once electron became "acceptable in polite society", it was all over.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by fulafel on Friday February 18, 2022 @01:27AM (#30382728)

Teams, Slack and VSCode all run in the browser too and that's really useful.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by OctopusLupid on Thursday February 17, 2022 @08:18PM (#30381072)

Agreed. My main problem with Electron apps is just how slow it loads, even on an M1 Mac (~20 seconds loading time vs the normal 1 second or less). Discord is certainly no exception to it, and even steals focus twice while loading.

Personally I have to quit Discord to keep myself from getting distracted, so it’s way worse when you have to wait so long just to reply to a notification.

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by can16358p on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:04PM (#30379933)

Super snappy for me (with countless of crowded servers constantly bombarding messages).

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Re:Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on le... by throw10920 on Friday February 25, 2022 @05:21PM (#30473066)

Post your specs. Discord takes 10 seconds to start up on my unloaded Core i5-6200u.

The average user does not have a gaming or workstation CPU.

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