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Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @02:54PM (#30377837)
I'm a type 1 diabetic, and this was a helpful post at showing non diabetics why it is so. hard. Non diabetics typically think the difficult thing must be the shots and the finger pricks, right?

Not really. The majority of diabetics get used to those things quickly (of course there are some of course that deal with a major major needle phobia that can make it even harder). The hard part is that it never ends. Almost every moment of every day, your brain has a background process running that's evaluating every decision in context of your diabetes. There are no breaks. Your prefrontal cortex now has to take the place of a previously complex and automatic bodily process. It's the last thing you think about when you go to bed and it's the first thing you think about when you wake up. It's what you think about when you want to go on a walk, are about to enter a meeting, go into an interview, get on a plane, take a shower.

It's usually little things: "okay, where am I at now? which direction is it going? when did I last eat? do I have snacks ready? do I have enough insulin for the day? what if I start to go low during this meeting? should I pop some carbs and run high for this interview, so I don't risk a hypo partway through? why am I going low right now when I took the same dose I took yesterday for the same meal? why am I now skyrocketing for no discernible reason, I didn't even eat anything? shoot, I'm starting to hypo out of nowhere in the middle of this great conversation, which I now have to interrupt to eat a snack and recover for 15 minutes. I fell asleep with a perfect BG, but now I'm awake at 2AM half delirious because my BG fell all the way down to 50, and I'm in the kitchen shoving cookies down my throat because hypoglycemia activates a survival instinct to EAT EVERYTHING that's extremely hard to control, and I know that I'm gonna shoot all the way up to 250 shortly, which I'll have to treat with insulin, and I'm basically not going to get any sleep tonight".

And then the math often doesn't make any sense. There are so many factors that effect it. One day the same number of carbs + insulin may make you go high, and the next low, because of other environmental factors. (See the "42 factors that effect blood glucose" chart in the post.) You're constantly having to adjust.

I'm literally crying while writing this post, because it's so exhausting and it never ends.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by csnover on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:19PM (#30378820)
One of the scariest experiences of my life was going on a walk after lunch with someone who had T1D and miscalculated their insulin dose. They went from totally fine, to saying “I don’t feel well, we need to head back”, to sweaty and sheet white and barely conscious within just a few minutes. The terror I felt as we waited for the doors of the lift to open so he could get to his emergency food is burned into my brain.

I’m ashamed that I spent so much of my life ignorantly thinking that diabetes was some nuisance like heartburn where you moderate what you eat and maybe take some medication, rather than the endless grind of counting units and risking your life every time you need to eat, or exercise, or sleep.

I can’t imagine living like that, and I’m so, so sorry to you and to everyone else that has no choice. A cure for cancer is often held up as the holy grail of medicine, but even cancer patients don’t have to be perfect every day just to keep living.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:41PM (#30379052)
Yeah, getting caught out somewhere without snacks and a looming hypo is one of my nightmares. I try to always, always, always have snacks on me (for a diabetic, this is even more important to have when you leave the house than your keys or wallet), but sometimes things happen, and you end up somewhere without anything. It's really scary, but the good news is that if there is anybody around, enough people understand at least enough about diabetes to give you something to eat if you start saying "I'm having a diabetic emergency, does anyone have anything with sugar?"

The scary part is potentially getting caught out somewhere entirely alone and without an emergency snack.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by kelp on Thursday February 17, 2022 @09:40PM (#30381533)
My wife has t1d and when we were dating we backpacked the Lost Coast trail. She was pretty paranoid of bears, so made sure we didn't have any food in our tent and did a good job of hiding our bear canisters some place where any bears couldn't move them around if they got to them. She'd had a bad experience with bears pushing bear canisters off a waterfall.

So she had a low in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere. She was still verbal, but barely, and sent me to get her some snacks out of the bear canisters. However I didn't know where she'd hid them. After looking in the dark for a while I had to go back to the tent and try to get enough of an explanation out of her to find the hidden canisters. Fortunately she was abele to give me enough context that I was able to find the canisters and get her something to eat.

After that, I kept my own hidden stash of snacks in the tent and make sure she told me where the canisters were.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by mathstuf on Friday February 18, 2022 @09:36AM (#30386180)
Oof. For finding my bearcan, adding conspicuity tape (the red/white reflector tape used on tractor trailers) makes them stand out like a beacon with a headlamp (which, so far as I know, bears have not learned to make use of). It also has adhesive good enough to stick to their slick plastic.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by kelp on Friday February 18, 2022 @10:59AM (#30387372)
This is a great idea, thank you! If I can get myself into shape for it by late June, I'm going to try doing the JMT this year. This tip may come in handy. Thanks.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by MrFoof on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:01PM (#30379904)
>The scary part is potentially getting caught out somewhere entirely alone and without an emergency snack.

First thing I do every morning is A) put on pants B) put my keys and a tube of glucose tablets in my front pants pocket.

You can probably guess the expensive way that became ritual.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by irrational on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:22PM (#30380115)
I never thought about how being diabetic takes emergency preparedness to a new level. We saw people unexpectedly stuck for a couple of days in traffic because of snow recently. What if there is an earthquake and you can't get to somewhere with snacks? There are so many situations that could unexpectedly arise that could cut you off from food. If I'm cut off from food, I'll be fine for a few days. Not so much a diabetic. That's scary.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by paulcole on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:36PM (#30380233)
> What if there is an earthquake and you can't get to somewhere with snacks?

I’m a Type 1 diabetic (diagnosed in my 30s) and have been living with it for about a decade now. This really isn’t a “what if” situation. I know what will happen. I will die or hopefully just become incredibly ill.

It’s not really scary at all.

It’s just something I live with and prepare for as best I can. The one thing that I’ve learned from living with Type 1 is that all you can do is make the best decision you can in any given moment. My favorite doctor told me that diabetes is a disease that is all about making decisions. So is life, I guess.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by liamwire on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:44AM (#30383844)
Please forgive my ignorance, how is it possible that you lived until your thirties without knowing you have T1D?
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by davidthewatson on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:45AM (#30384206)
The really interesting thing is not that T1D diagnosis has erased the label for "Juvenile onset diabetes" because it can happen at any age, it's that those previously-thought-destroyed pancreatic cells that produce insulin, are actually continuing decades after disease diagnosis and can be "reactivated" via BCG or Valter Longo's FMD:

"Identifying most people with T1D continue to secrete varying amounts of insulin and C-peptides for decades after initial diagnosis:

https://www.healthline.com/diabetesmine/dr-faustmans-controv...

See below for my deeper response on these and other issues:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30382364

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by wellyousee on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:22AM (#30384067)
Peak age of diagnosis is mid-teens with quite a sharp bell curve. But, it can develop at any age.

It takes a genetic predisposition and a trigger - perhaps a virus? - for your immune system to start eating your pancreas' insulin-producing cells.

The old labels of "juvenile diabetes" etc. are as unhelpful as the notion it's caused by obesity.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by rthille on Friday February 18, 2022 @12:39PM (#30388656)
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by paulcole on Friday February 18, 2022 @07:58AM (#30385157)
T1D can be triggered at any time in a person’s life. It’s autoimmune. Thinking of it as a childhood disease is outdated and (fortunately) most doctors are becoming aware of that.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by reddiky on Friday February 18, 2022 @09:29AM (#30386075)
diagnosed at 25, it happens :-/
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by ng12 on Friday February 18, 2022 @01:49AM (#30382854)
Yep, very much. Most insulin pumps only cary a few days worth of insulin at a time so it's not uncommon to be heading home after work with only half a day of insulin left. That can quickly become a life-or-death situation.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by carlmr on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:27AM (#30383750)
Kind of reminds me of the movie with Justin Timberlake where people trade lifetime, not money, because people live forever.

I guess this is somewhat similar. Especially in places where your health insurance isn't a given.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by reddiky on Friday February 18, 2022 @09:30AM (#30386095)
I always have 4 or 5 glucose gels in my car. My diabetes kit has a couple more. You learn pretty quick you need to be able to treat at least a couple of hypos by yourself
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by sokoloff on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:44PM (#30380882)
I had a “drunk” parked in the inside lane of the four lane road in front of my house one evening. He was just stopped in traffic and got out stumbling around. I was annoyed (naturally) and he handed me his phone. Whatever, dude; I don’t want to talk to your friend right now. Somehow he insisted and his friend told me he was diabetic and to call an ambulance.

I did, got him some OJ, and moved his car out of traffic. He went from incoherent and “drunk” to “seemed pretty OK” in just a couple of minutes before the medics even arrived. (He still took the ride, but it was none of my business at that point.)

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by consp on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:51AM (#30383182)
I've had the "are you drunk" comments a few times while hypoglycemic.

I once walked home from work and apperantly didn't notice it, walked a few busy intersections and finally sat down somewhere where someone noticed me and called an ambulance who game me a glucose iv and everything was back to normal in a few minutes. So everything was still somewhat working and the "go home" signal was set but everything else was broken. Not everyone responds the same though and concerning cars I have at least some dextrose with me at all times and some in the car as well, as well as hidden at work and at home and in all my coats and backpacks and everywhere... OJ works quite well since it is readily available.

They did teach my parents one thing when handeling people with hypoglycemia: never try to stop them from consuming your entire fridge. Motor control is lacking and a young adult can easilly hurt you badly if you try to intervene.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by mnw21cam on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:55AM (#30384266)
One of the slightly scary things about T1D is that at first you get a weird feeling when your blood sugar is too low, and you can notice when that happens. But if it happens too often, those warning signs stop, and you can get into a really serious condition without noticing for yourself.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by consp on Saturday February 19, 2022 @05:40PM (#30401213)
The worst is during the night: You are sleeping, in a partial-dream, know you have hypoglycemia --somehow you know-- but you don't know for sure but it feels like something you experienced before, you do not completely wake up, dream somewhat lucid and are aware but you cannot decide to wake up and get something to eat but keep on dreaming and it's not a happy dream and keeps on going. Usually my dream-self starts screaming at myself to wake up. I've had that a few times and it's scary as [expiative here].
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by pimeys on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:07AM (#30383615)
A CGM, app like xdrip and a smartwatch to display the current glucose value, trend graph and insulin on body has completely removed these situations from my life. As people normally check the time, you'll be checking the glucose value when walking outside
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by davidthewatson on Friday February 18, 2022 @07:53AM (#30385111)
That's the glass half-full. If that works for you, then I'm happy that at least one of us has found a solution that works reliably.

The glass half-empty is...

I'd be much happier if I actually had an information device that I wore on my wrist that gave me all the data I need to manage T1D at a glance without igniting arguably the worst alert fatigue ever seen in healthcare when I have a smartphone, a pump, a CGM, and a watch which all go off in a discordant concert with one another with no clue that the other is alerting or any mechanism for stopping the noise save for turning off the device. In short, my wish is that the companies making these devices would give more care to the _design_ of the ecosystem around them, not just their individual device. I know, this is an emergent problem, but one that I've dealt with nightly at 3 AM when the devices go awry, not my diabetes, which is actually quite stable. The vast majority of my disease control and management issues arise from technology. Like insulin, it's the exogenous nature of the device that indicates there will be side effects, whether we design for them and manage them, or not. Unfortunately, patients pay with their user experience, all day, every day. There is no greater use case for the design of a killer app for the smart watch, i.e. wrist-worn information device, because I don't actually care what time it is. Rather, I'd be happy if the device actually made BG and related information the primary data currency of the device, not time. Time is actually secondary to the primacy of BG in this particular use case. I wear two watches to account for the fact that I need BG at a glance and the sensors for tracking exercise and metabolic impact. I've not seen a single device or interface that gives me what I want on one device at a glance without a byzantine UI.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by pimeys on Friday February 18, 2022 @08:19AM (#30385326)
Here is what I have in my watch:

https://i.imgur.com/Iv6V3ap.jpg

Date, time, glucose graph, steps, pulse, time from last value, last glucose value, delta from previous value, current pump basal rate and units of insulin from the base.

More than enough to understand your current situation. Battery life after few years of use about three days.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by arch-ninja on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:30PM (#30392000)
The alert fatigue is _very real_; I have a dexcom and consistently see it:

- mis-calibrate (first day's readings are garbage after new sensor insert)

- UI on the app will sometimes mis-render by 10-15 minutes. On several occasions I have been watching the graph while dosing, didn't see any change whatsoever after 30/45 minutes, and gave more insulin because of that information. 5 seconds later the screen changes and displays 15 minutes of BG going steeply down as I would expect, but now I have 2x the dose in me -_-

While I'm swimming in sensor readings the actual impact on my treatment quality has been close to nil, but it does make the people around me feel better. I feel as if my ability to sense my own levels has worsened because I default to trusting the graph over how I feel.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by 1123581321 on Saturday February 19, 2022 @03:32AM (#30395411)
I think you’d benefit from an app like InPen that lets you save your novolog settings and graphs the insulin remaining in your body for you. It sounds like you don’t understand the curve. It also warns you if you’re doubling doses to dangerous levels of stacking. You really need to learn not to do that no matter what the graph says. Can you get an appointment with a diabetes educator?
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by consp on Saturday February 19, 2022 @05:34PM (#30401172)
> A CGM, app like xdrip and a smartwatch to display the current glucose value, trend graph and insulin on body has completely removed these situations from my life.

If my body wouldn't dislike those I would agree. But my experience is after about a day the results get so mixed up and unreliable that it's pretty much worthless. Hopefully they get better over time.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by dreamcompiler on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:47AM (#30384222)
He needed the ride. OJ solves the problem quickly but he could crash again unless he gets some slow carbs. He knew that.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by cleancoder0 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:13PM (#30379383)
I once took a 5 hour bike trip on an empty stomach. At some point I couldn’t even turn the pedals. I had to lay on the ground, not feeling better even after half hour. I can still remember the feeling of eating some sweets. Felt like I was reborn. Can’t imagine what it’s like for T1
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:37PM (#30379638)
The interesting thing is that your BG levels may have actually been fine. Physical exhaustion doesn't necessarily lead to hypoglycemia in a healthy person. Hypoglycemia feels significantly different than just being hungry, for example.

A bizarre phenomenon: feeling stuffed because you ate a huge meal, but having a hypo anyway. You don't want to eat anything because you're not hungry, but feel an overwhelming urge to stuff your face with sweets anyway.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by consp on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:58AM (#30383219)
I worked in the university library and a few times a year we had girls studying for hours on empty stomachs (brains consuming glucose is a different process from normal). They usually felt dizzy, were bleak and confused and were sometimes sweating and usually came to ask for some OTC painkiller or something. Usually gave them some of my dextrose tablets and someone's lunch and almost always it was fine a few minutes later. I'm pretty sure they had hypoglycemia. Though for (us) diabetics hypoglycemia where we start feeling it isn a considerably lower blood glucose level than for most regular people so there is some difference in how far you are gone down the rabbit hole already.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by reddiky on Friday February 18, 2022 @09:33AM (#30386144)
This necessity of eating after you overate but mis-treated is one of the worst feelings in T1. You know you screwed up and you know you're going to pay for it, because you'll probably spike later and you don't know if it is the big meal you just ate or the snack you ate to keep from going low first. I love pizza, my body hates pizza
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by dreamcompiler on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:50AM (#30384241)
You were likely short of potassium too. This is why professional cyclists pack bananas for the ride.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by stefan_ on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:06PM (#30380560)
You weren't necessarily hypoglycemic, just low on glycogen. The former is a life threatening condition, the latter is more of a deep exhaustion.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by go_blue_13 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @08:10PM (#30381022)
well put. After swimming 10km on a empty stomach that first glass of chocolate milk and a banana were near psychedelic. Obviously not the same life threatening situation as a diabetic but I can imagine there'd be some similarity to the experiences
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by quickthrower2 on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:53AM (#30383899)
is this like “the wall” marathon runners are said to experience?
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jfengel on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:24PM (#30389987)
Yeah. Runners call it the wall; cyclists call it "bonking".

I've been told that it can come on more suddenly and acutely for cyclists. As a marathoner I find that I feel it coming for several miles, which is tens of minutes. The activities are somewhat different so it's not impossible that they manifest differently.

But the basic idea is similar. You've got so much readily available glycogen in the body, and when it runs out, you have to shift to a different metabolic pathway -- and your body starts sending up warnings that you are rapidly running out of reserves and must stop now.

It's as much mental as physical at that point.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by klipt on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:52PM (#30379802)
> some nuisance like heartburn

Unmanaged heartburn can lead to esophageal cancer, you shouldn't take it too lightly.

[dead]
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by ineedasername on Thursday February 17, 2022 @08:55PM (#30381274)
It seems like a valid side note that, similar to diabetes, other ailments also have hidden complexities.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by gowld on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:24PM (#30378885)
Now imagine what it's like for someone with T1D to live alone, if you haven't yet been to a funeral for that. Every single time you go to sleep is a roll of the dice.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by noodleman on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:37PM (#30379641)
This is a bit melodramatic. I've lived alone with T1D for the better part of a decade without any problem. I went to uni, alone, without any problems.

Frankly, I think depending on other people is a liability. I can't count on my hands how many times I've had to explain to people that you don't give an unconsious diabetic insulin, you call an ambulance and follow the instructions you're given. I just don't trust the average person enough to burden them with the responsibility.

The only people I would trust to look after my unconsious body during a severe hypo are medical professionals - and there are medical professionals that I still wouldn't trust!

Yes, the maths is unavoidable. Diabetes burnout is real. But if you've it had for nearly 3 decades, like I have, then you learn coping strategies. My advice is to spend some time finding a specialist who listens and answers questions. Use the devices available to you and learn them well. Don't make changes to your insulin regimen when you're angry or hypo. Most importantly, don't strive for unattainable perfection.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by lolc on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:03PM (#30380527)
Yes living alone with diabetes is fine given modern treatment and some robust habits.

Here's the instruction to the people I know I will be spending longer stretches of time with: When I look very tired, disoriented, or talk incoherently: fetch orange juice or some other sugary drink. Make sure I drink it. When you find me unconscious: roll me on the side, call an ambulance. You can put sugar under my tongue but do keep watching me. If you feel confident, apply the syringe from the orange box in the fridge.

Thankfully, none of this has played out so far. Except that I had to rely on friends a few times when my sugar ran out. That's already plenty scary.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by paulcole on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:38PM (#30380264)
Everybody’s T1D experience is different and it’s not that melodramatic. Before I had a CGM I went so low at night my partner had to call 911 in the morning.

Sure I bounced back and got a CGM, but only because I could afford one. I was terrified of going to sleep at night without a handful of alarms set to wake me.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by gruez on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:40PM (#30379039)
>Every single time you go to sleep is a roll of the dice.

Isn't that the case even if you have someone sleeping beside you? I suppose it mitigate some risk on the off chance that your partner wakes up and notices you're sweating or whatever, but what if they're sound asleep? Does someone who's high/low on blood sugar exhibit symptoms that are easily picked up by a sleeping person?

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:43PM (#30379074)
The good news is that for most diabetics, your body will automatically wake you up for a hypo. It's a survival mechanism. But some people suffer from hypoglycemic unawareness, and their body doesn't wake them up.

Most diabetics have CGMs these days, though, and somebody like that should be setting hypo / hyper alarms so that either them or their partner wakes up.

(The problem there becomes false alarms and the subsequent alarm fatigue that results in you turning them all off.)

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by richie5um on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:12PM (#30379373)
“Most diabetics have CGMs these days” - not where I come from :-(
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:18PM (#30379439)
You're right, the truth is probably actually that only a minority of T1Ds have CGMs. My post was a bit insensitive, not everyone has easy access to them.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by techsupporter on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:44PM (#30379728)
What's even more frustrating is the disparity in who can get them and how even if they are cleared for use in your country. The author here points out that New Zealand's medical system doesn't always pay for CGMs, while the Australian system does. In Ireland, the Dexcom G6 system is available but the FreeStyle Libre 2, an updated version of the FreeStyle Libre with more frequent reads and better alarms (Libre vs Libre 2), is not.

CGMs are available over-the-counter, just like finger stick machines, in a variety of countries like Canada and Ireland. But in the United States a prescription is required for any CGM even if insurance doesn't pay for it and insurance generally only pays for it once you are actively on full-time insulin treatment, so type-2 diabetics can't avail of insurance to reduce the cost of potentially not needing to go on recurring insulin by getting a handle on being pre-diabetic. (Plus many doctors won't write a CGM Rx for someone who isn't type-1 or very symptomatic type-2. This has resulted in nutritionist businesses springing up whose purpose is to turn a credit card charge into a prescription for a CGM.)

But of course different countries have different regulatory systems, we all know that. This is to say that even when you find a system and method that has worked for others in your online community, that method might not be available to you, and it causes even more stress to have the idea, right or wrong, that a useful tool is just out of your grasp. And carbohydrates help you if you dare move between countries.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by lytefm on Friday February 18, 2022 @05:55AM (#30384267)
I was really surprised how difficult it is for competitors like levels to provide CGMs in the US.

Here in Europe we can simply get them from Abbot/Dexcom an ship them.

I can't make any promises, but I'm positive that I'll be able to develop a product that takes care of finding the correct insulin doses when giving activity and CGM data + meal information withing the next year's.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by tagh on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:52PM (#30380411)
>The author here points out that New Zealand's medical system doesn't always pay for CGMs, while the Australian system does.

Only for under 21s, and only recently. Once you hit 21, the rug is pulled out from under you.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by smnrchrds on Thursday February 17, 2022 @09:26PM (#30381454)
My province (Alberta) in Canada is just starting to cover CGM costa and only for under 18s.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/glucose-monitoring-d...

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by UnpossibleJim on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:58PM (#30379871)
My doctor had to fight to get me one. I workout and was highly insulin sensitive (she made me workout less and gain some weight by doing less cardio - drives me nuts, I liked running). The insurance companies didn't want to fork over for the upfront cost, even though I had been to the hospital several times for low blood sugars. This included a stroke caused by a severe low blood sugar (yes, I lived alone at the time, pre CGM. Coworkers called a friend who had a key).

Granted this was 4 years ago, so I'm unsure how things have changed. The CGM is a game changer. I wish I had had it earlier. Would have kept me (hopefully) from a lot of issues and putting my friends and family through unnecessary pain.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by sah24 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:20PM (#30380092)
Hi, do you live in the USA? I had a similar experience to you. I am considering doing a research project for grad school about patients in the USA who experienced insurance denials for CGMs.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by UnpossibleJim on Thursday February 17, 2022 @09:58PM (#30381647)
I do live in the US. Yes. And actually, my endo is probably a better person to chat with. Let me drop her an email and see if she A) is allowed and B) has the time
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by sah24 on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:07AM (#30382932)
sweet, thanks!
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by sah24 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:33PM (#30380210)
P.S. feel free to email me at [email protected] -- thanks
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by kelp on Thursday February 17, 2022 @09:45PM (#30381565)
The alarm fatigue is no joke, and CGMs get less accurate the lower ones blood glucose goes, so false alarms on the low end are common.

My wife has a Tandem T:Slim and Dexcom G6 and she can't turn off the urgent low alarm. The alarms drive her totally crazy.

Though I'm happy to know at least the system will disable her basal rate if she's heading low.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by 1123581321 on Saturday February 19, 2022 @03:37AM (#30395432)
It’s about a 3 in 100k chance you’ll die from hypoglycemia in your sleep over a year. So the die you are rolling every night has about ten million sides.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jorvi on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:10PM (#30379345)
> A cure for cancer is often held up as the holy grail of medicine, but even cancer patients don’t have to be perfect every day just to keep living.

Wow. There is no need to dismiss the plight of cancer patients in relation to that of diabetes patients.

As a diabetic, if you go through the (granted, horrible) grind, you can be fairly certain you'll live for quite some time.

If you are a cancer patient, even if you are currently in remission or even 'cured', you don't know if the cancer will come back. And if it will respond to the same treatment and if not if there is an alternative. Your survival timeline basically becomes one giant question mark.

https://xkcd.com/931/

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by kamens on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:28PM (#30379547)
I don't think there was any dismissal of the awful seriousness of cancer. In my experience, those who 'know' T1D (via themselves or close family) tend to be _extremely_ empathetic to the impact of most other health conditions, too.

What I read in that comment about "being perfect every day" -- and what I notice about having T1D compared to the awful experiences of family w/ cancer -- is the distinction b/w experiencing suffering caused by some terrible external force (cancer) vs experiencing suffering that can be interpreted as caused by yourself. Or suffering for which it's always easy to partially judge yourself.

The reason this post (notice even the 'defensiveness' in its title) resonates so much w/ those w/ T1D is because this condition presents one with non-stop, 24/7 complicated problems to solve w/ serious consequences...and yet, any time something goes wrong, it still feels like it's kinda your fault. Like you made a mistake.

That is a non-stop mental grind that is unique to T1D and a small set of diseases. The uniqueness certainly does not make cancer less awful.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by adhesive_wombat on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:31PM (#30379580)
Not that it's a competition, but T1D can and does just come out of left field and fuck you over. Not only for annoyingly prosaic things like forgetting a Snickers in the car and passing out alone and never waking up, but also sudden cardiac death is an order of magnitude higher.

I had cancer, it was shit, and yes, there's always a chance its not done with me, but at least the cause of death won't be "finally forgot a snack".

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by imtringued on Friday February 18, 2022 @03:40AM (#30383440)
Type one diabetes is an auto immune disease whereas type two diabetes is a symptom of the food industry, those are hardly comparable.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by coldpie on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:20PM (#30378130)
Same here. 100% dead accurate description.

> what if I start to go low during this meeting? should I pop some carbs and run high for this interview, so I don't risk a hypo partway through?

Love this part. Had to do it literally yesterday to prep for interviewing a job applicant. Imagine the stress of an upcoming meeting, but also your brain might stop functioning half an hour into it! Ha ha! Good times.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:29PM (#30378217)
Perhaps the only good thing about T1D is the immediate camaraderie you feel with other T1Ds. When I spot somebody else in public with a CGM or a pump, it's just that instant feeling of "hey, we know nothing about each other, but we have a very intimate understanding of each other's suffering".

> Love this part. Had to do it literally yesterday to prep for interviewing a job applicant. Imagine the stress of an upcoming meeting, but also your brain might stop functioning half an hour into it! Ha ha! Good times.

Haha, yeah, this is one of those things that every T1D has had to do at some point, that non diabetics would probably be shocked by. There are just times when you can't risk going low. Going high ain't great, but it at least doesn't involve the immediate danger that a hypo at just the wrong moment does...

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by baseballdork on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:15PM (#30378780)
I did this applying for an internship at Microsoft. First big company interview for me and I didn't realize they would be taking me to lunch. The interviews after lunch were miserable as I was dangerously high.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by coldpie on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:50PM (#30379781)
> Perhaps the only good thing about T1D is the immediate camaraderie you feel with other T1Ds.

On that note, feel free to send me an email if you want. Or not, no pressure. (I would've sent you one, but your profile is empty :) )

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Mezzie on Thursday February 17, 2022 @08:05PM (#30381001)
> I'm literally crying while writing this post, because it's so exhausting and it never ends.

If it helps (?), I also broke down crying reading this, because I have MS and it is so true to my experience. I've never been able to communicate well how exhausting the constant mental load is, and I imagine it's even worse for people with T1 diabetes since blood glucose can get out of whack a lot more quickly than my immune system can make more holes in my nervous system.

You nailed it on the head exactly with the constant balancing.

"Okay, so I didn't sleep for crap last night due to symptoms. Do I have some caffeine and spend the rest of the day in pain due to the increased muscle spasticity? Maybe if I have 3 cups of coffee instead of 1 and also take some of my muscle spasticity medication, I'll be able to stay awake but not be in too much pain. Except if I dip into what are supposed to be nighttime pain meds too often, I might run out of Tizanidine. When will my insurance refill? How much will it cost out of pocket when I have a bad pain month?"

And then I get stressed out about the MS, and we're supposed to avoid stress, so then I stress about my stress. Fantastic.

And all until the day we die.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by mst on Friday February 18, 2022 @01:51PM (#30389575)
Oof. Even without any physical issues if I get stressed about stuff in a way that makes it hard to concentrate I usually then manage to do the 'stress about my stress' thing on top of that and damn but that's no fun at all.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Mezzie on Friday February 18, 2022 @03:24PM (#30390588)
Are you tired of boring, old stress?

Try new and improved META-stress: all the worrying and none of those pesky resolutions or good things!

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by mkrecny on Thursday February 17, 2022 @09:30PM (#30381482)
I'm sorry
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by FunnyLookinHat on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:24PM (#30378166)
I've been diagnosed with gastroparesis [1], and reading this gave me the exact same reaction! Almost all of my day is consumed with "what did I eat most recently? when should I eat next? How much? What am I short on for today? Protein? Carbs?" It's mentally exhausting. I'm thankful though that I only have to be concerned with "how much I can eat in a day" and there is no upper threshold. Lately I've been thinking about T1D and similar issues that have a high focus on managing food intake, and I completely empathize with you and everyone else who has to do this.

If anyone reading this struggles with gastroparesis I'd love to chat about diet choices that have worked for me. Contact info in my profile.

1) https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gastroparesis....

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by arka2147483647 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:34PM (#30378978)
I have had Type 1 for 30 years.

To be honest, i don't do the math. I choose the amount of units to inject by feel. I mean, i know by eating a banana, i get something like 20g of carbohydrates, and i should take 3u. But if i feel, that the correct dose is 6 units, then i take that.

I cant really explain it. But i kind of feel the state, where i am going, and can adjust instinctively. Works more often than not. I have never passed out.

Edit:

I measure blood sugar A LOT, though.

Most important things are what i think as the Morning Gate, and the Night Gate.

For Night, must have blood sugar under 10mmol/l. Preferably without pending effects such as food or recent injection. If i get that right, the night blood sugar is steady.

In the morning, must account for the morning blood sugar raise phenomenon.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:37PM (#30379005)
I'm at 10 years, and this is basically how I do it as well. The math just doesn't work, because there are too many factors at play, most of which you don't even know about, and can't plug into a simple equation. You might have the exact same meal and the exact same insulin dosage on two different days, and go low on one and high on the other.

You eventually gain an instinct for it. Doesn't always work, but for me it works better than the formulas...

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by emj on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:40PM (#30379041)
> I measure blood sugar A LOT, though.

That is the most important part, you can really live a good life if you have that. I hope we get more powerfull and cheap way to do that continously. At the momemnt it's at least 300 USD a month for a CGM device that can measure every five minutes. It's abit like monitoring traffic load and adding more servers as you go, except too many servers kill you.

That with knowing how you react to changes in life works wonders, e.g. exercise, eating fat foods, sitting all day.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by arka2147483647 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:57PM (#30379231)
Well, I have had the incredible luxury of being born in Finland, so state/municipality pays everything. Insulin, Glucose-test-supplies, Doctors. I truly fell sad when i hear what US based persons have to go through. Though, i suppose i pay it in taxes :)

About devices.. The first Glucose-test-device (what are they even called in english) took 5min to process the results. Current one is 5sec. A massive improvement in both speed and accuracy in these things.

I hope a good non-invasive device is developed, though i'm not sure it is essential, for me anyways.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by JimmyAustin on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:15PM (#30379408)
I'm not diabetic, but I tried a FreeStyle Libre 2 continuous glucose monitor to measure my blood sugar, and I think it's basically what you are asking for. Tap your phone on a patch on your arm to get a instant view of your blood sugar, plus see the previous 8 hours. It is pricey though.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by arka2147483647 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:51PM (#30379788)
My understanding is that all current devices like this use a thin sensor "fiber" that is inserted under the skin, which is then connected to the coms-unit, which is in the sticker which remains on top of the skin. So they are still somewhat invasive.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by consp on Friday February 18, 2022 @03:07AM (#30383274)
And also annoying if your body really doesn't like them since they clog up after at most a day with me... (I've used them a few time since they were the size of bread boxes with long wires and the results after about a day always become erradic and unpredictable)
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Jarmsy on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:38PM (#30392710)
It is expensive, but testing with strips >5x a day can easily end up costing more. When I was on strips I usually needed at least that to have anywhere near decent control.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by steveklabnik on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:52PM (#30379179)
> It's abit like monitoring traffic load and adding more servers as you go, except too many servers kill you.

Not even just that, but with fairly primitive monitoring tools. The built-in stuff for Dexcom can only alert on highs or lows, not on things like the rate of change, which would be much more useful IMHO.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by ksaun on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:18PM (#30380084)
The Dexcom G6 is capable of alerts for rate of change, but it's about what the rate was, not what it will be. It still can be helpful.

(When looking at the app, there are "trend arrows," also, but they unfortunately are misleading in some situations. Often looking at the data points can give you a sense of your situation, though.)

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by steveklabnik on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:49PM (#30380382)
TIL that this must be in the main app somewhere, but not Follow. (and yeah, the arrows are all over the place, sometimes different between Follow and the main app... the data points is the best, for sure.)
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by pimeys on Friday February 18, 2022 @01:32AM (#30382762)
There are open source apps such as xdrip that can alert on a trend change, and androidaps that turns off insulin delivery way before you get to a hypo.

The official one from Dexcom is not very good.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by steveklabnik on Friday February 18, 2022 @11:24AM (#30387718)
Yeah, if you're technical, there's options. But if you're not, it can be harder.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by archi42 on Friday February 18, 2022 @03:55AM (#30383533)
300 USD? That is incredibly expensive! In Germany, the general public can order a Libre 2/3 from their website for 60 EUR. That's 150 USD per month (assuming 26 devices per year). Though that's a purely theoretical price: As with insulin, the mandatory health insurance seems to pay for it anyway.

Even with import taxes/tariffs applied, I could imagine a vacation to Europe being massively subsidized by just bringing back one or two years of GCM supplies (obviously Vimes theory of socioeconomic unfairness[1] applies).

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/72745-the-reason-that-the-r...

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by pimeys on Friday February 18, 2022 @04:14AM (#30383669)
In Germany a Dexcom G6 sensor is 80€ per 10 days. A transmitter about 400€ per 90 days. TK pays for all of this if you can show nightly hypos and jumpy glucose values, which should be easy for any T1d...

Dexcom is the only one accurate enough to use with SMB looping. And the only one in germany that sends the glucose numbers to your phone with BLE. Libre 2 can be hacked to do the same though.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by archi42 on Monday February 21, 2022 @08:10AM (#30415492)
Hm, possibly? I mean, I luckily don't have diabetes and know the Libre 2 only second-hand (my Dad uses it to monitor his non-T1d). So I am not too familiar with the details, hence first of all thanks for the clarification of what that device can or much rather can not do.

However, I was under the impression that the GP [emj] was "only" considering good monitoring to improve their decision about insulin application. Not a closed loop system. But yeah, if they meant a closed loop and if the Dexcom is the cheapest option here, then the 300 US$/month is actually cheaper than the 380 US$/month you outlined.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by consp on Friday February 18, 2022 @03:05AM (#30383261)
> honest, i don't do the math

Also 30 years here. I have exactly the same thing as you describe though when I switch insulin I do start calculating again to be sure it matches with my assumptions. Blood glucose measuring is required though as you mention. I'm one of the lucky ones with very lineair and predictable response to every unit more or less of insulin. Not everyone is that lucky though.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by grahar64 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @09:29PM (#30381476)
There are some pros and cons to managing T1D but not being the person actually managing it. The main con is that I have no idea how he is feeling, which makes us very numbers obsessed, hence the post :)
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by grahar64 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:32PM (#30378962)
Having an 18 month old means we are in full control of everything he does and eats and doses and even with all that control we see wild swings and weird shit every day. Having all the energy needed to manage T1D and the self control to do it is superhuman. I wrote this post mostly because I didn’t know that before and I want more people to know. You are doing great.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by aarondf on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:22PM (#30379481)
I'm a dad to 9 month old twins and I'm a Type 1 Diabetic.

The picture of you and your son in that hospital bed broke me. You're doing great.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:44PM (#30379102)
Thank you! Being a parent of a T1D (especially an infant) is also a monumentally stressful task, and your post shows you're doing a great job. Keep up the good work, and please take care of yourself as well.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by berkes on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:33PM (#30378282)
> a survival instinct to EAT EVERYTHING that's extremely hard to control

T1 here too. The weird part about this, is that it happens while you are aware of it.

My brain: "hey, you're doing it again. stop it. You know it'll end bad". my hand: "nope. here's more cookies".

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:37PM (#30378334)
100%. A minor low doesn't cause this reaction from me, but at a certain point the survival instinct kicks into gear so heavily there's almost nothing you can do until your BG starts to rise, even when you know you've overdone it.

It's the real life experience of this Frog and Toad meme: https://i.imgur.com/YdSSscE.png

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Sharlin on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:08PM (#30379333)
And of course, those are both your brain. The self-aware rational parts just aren't always in charge (heck, I'm not sure if they're even in charge most of the time, no matter what they would like to think).
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by lolc on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:17PM (#30380656)
Eh, don't feel bad about the inevitable. My conscious self knows well to just count the carbs when I'm too low to behave. At least then I'll know how much insulin to dose when the curve ticks upwards again.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by pixl97 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:12PM (#30378741)
Continuous blood glucose monitor and insulin pump. It's reduce the stress and the nearly dying incidents dramatically. The bigger concern for me in my life now is having a backup carbohydrate supply on me so if I go do something like hiking that I have enough glucose to make it back to the next carbohydrate source.

Of course being able to even afford this in the US requires a certain level of privilege. Supplies are very expensive.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by gowld on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:27PM (#30378908)
If you have an insulin pump, can you also have a glucose pump?
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by cadr on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:47PM (#30379124)
Or a glucagon pump: https://beyondtype1.org/future-artificial-pancreas/

(causes your liver to release its glucose)

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by kelp on Thursday February 17, 2022 @10:05PM (#30381691)
Thanks for sharing this. I wasn't aware of this, going to keep on eye on it.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by DavideNL on Sunday February 20, 2022 @11:42AM (#30406996)
In The Netherlands there’s a group of a few 100 people using a device like this already: http://inredadiabetic.nl/en_GB/

It’s sort of in a testing phase…

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by pimeys on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:44PM (#30379094)
No. But a hormone called glucagon is used in some pumps. It puts your liver to produce glucose.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by osrec on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:22PM (#30379489)
My sister is T1 diabetic (diagnosed at 11). Your description is extremely accurate.

I used to think that if you control all the parameters, then you can control diabetes. Thinking in this way is incorrect, and my lack of understanding caused a bunch of arguments between me and my sister. I wanted her blood sugars to be better, and assumed her bad blood sugar days were caused by poor control. They weren't, and quite honestly, only God knows the real cause.

I was pretty ignorant about what I didn't know. My sister is 32 now, and I feel like she's got a very good handle on her condition in the last decade or so. It is a continual struggle, but I'm proud of the fact that she now has mostly good days, with the occasional bad day here and there.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by shadowtree on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:28PM (#30380164)
Non-zero chance you might see a cure for type-1 in your lifetime.

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/analysis/vertex-stem-cel...

It's a stem cell therapy, in human trials (not the usual "in mice" crap).

A single patient already had their diabetes disappear: https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/vertex-diabetes-cell-t...

The downside of stemcell therapy is that it is essentially an organ transplant, aka requires immunosuppressants, for life.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Guidii on Friday February 18, 2022 @11:08AM (#30387494)
I'm a T1D for 45 years, and since my first diagnosis there has always been a cure that would be available "within the decade". This is the way.

That being said, every decade has seen life-changing therapies introduced. The introduction of long-lasting insulins. At home testing for glucose and ketones in urine. Mixing insulin formulations together to reduce the number of injections at a time. Thinner needles greatly reduced pain from injections (this one happened almost every year.) Moving from urine tests to blood glucose tests! Introducing shorter-acting insulins that reduce onset time. GLUCOMETERS! Moving from needles to pens allowed crazy-simple and virtually painless injections. Moving from pork formulations to human formulations of insulin. Carb counting: previously we used fixed diet - eat the same thing at the same time every freaking day. INSULIN PUMPS!!! Crazy fast-acting insulin formulations cutting onset down to 15 minutes. CONTINUOUS GLUCOSE MONITORING!!! Tracking and alerting for low glucose, overnight and remote. CUSTOM-BUILT CLOSED LOOPING!!! Reliable/medical grade CGM. Approved closed looping systems.

Many folks have worked very hard to make my life more livable, and I thank them for it. Today is, without a doubt, the best time to be a diabetic.

That being said, I still wouldn't recommend it;)

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by westoncb on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:17PM (#30380657)
I wonder if there's any good reason to reduce my pessimism about it: I can't help but think there are such strong economic incentives against having a cure (vs ongoing treatment) that it's very unlikely to become available during my lifetime.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by kelp on Thursday February 17, 2022 @09:51PM (#30381601)
I don't know much about medical research, but I've looked into some of these trials. They are generally being done by startups and not the established players who sell the diabetes management stuff.

So think disruptive tech. A new player comes into the market with something that obsoletes the old tech, and maybe destroys a whole market. But that new player makes their own money off it.

So yeah, maybe Tandem, Dexcom and Medtronic don't have a big incentive. But someone else can make some real money if they can find a cure or novel treatment that obsoletes all those others things.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by R0b0t1 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @09:02PM (#30381322)
I don't want to feed your pessimism too much but I think the general culture of being too reserved with funding and testing is going to do more harm than that.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by mnw21cam on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:06AM (#30384324)
The reason for the immunosuppressants is not the same as for a classic organ transplant. For a normal organ transplant, you need immunosuppressants because otherwise the body will recognise the new organ as being a foreign body that it doesn't recognise as self. For a stem cell transplant, the immune system has already gone around destroying every pancreatic beta cell it can find. The immune system is primed, and it absolutely recognises beta cells as something to destroy. The end goal is to encapsulate the inserted beta cells in a membrane that allows glucose in and insulin out, but keeps the immune system away.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by FalconSensei on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:28PM (#30379551)
I wake up at the same time and eat the same thing every weekday morning. Still, my bg at noon will range from 3 to 12. This after having this thing for 17 years. Yeah, it's hard.

Edit: On the 42 factors, during-sleep BG is either stable or up. For me it's either side or down (but occasionally up).

I do have the 'pre-sleep' BG that usually goes down, right after brushing my teeth (is it post-brushing then?), which is a well-known factor on Reddit. Basically, doesn't matter if I'm going to sleep at 10pm or 1am. I check my BG, it's 8, arrow straight or even up (CGM indicates the trend). Brush my teeth and check again, 7 with arrow straight down to the floor :/

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by brainlessdev on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:19PM (#30378117)
Although I haven't experienced this first-hand, my partner has T1D and I can see her reflected in everything you say. I'm hoping for a near future where technology paliates some of the dread of living with T1D. Some lines of research, such as implantable insuling-producing islets [1] seem promising, at least to someone without the chops to judge what's going on.

[1]: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03513939

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:24PM (#30378161)
Thanks for the kinds words.

The primary problem with those types of treatments is you have to be on immunosuppressants, or the immune system just kills the cells again. That type of treatment is typically not recommended unless the patient is already on immunosuppressants, or has extreme hypoglycemia unawareness, or extreme needle phobia. Immunosuppressants are typically considered a worse outcome than properly treating T1D with insulin + CGM.

For the same reason, sometimes T1D's will get a pancreas transplant if they are also getting another required transplant that will require immunosuppressants.

I think the best hope in the next 50-100 years or so is continued development and improvement of closed loop systems. Eventually we should get to a point where highly sophisticated closed loop artificial pancreases can automate much of the process away. This will improve treatment and long term health outcomes, but will still require a fairly significant level of maintenance and oversight on the part of the patient (or their parent). There's a lot of really promising work being done there.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by brainlessdev on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:30PM (#30378236)
I've been following the press about closed loop artificial pancreases closely, too. Currently, the open-source solutions there are require using insulin pumps that are pretty big and for some, that's not a choice they're ready to make. I too hope this tech continues to advance quickly.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by pimeys on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:49PM (#30378460)
The AndroidAPS works with many Omnipod models, and with DanaRS or Accu-Chek insight which are all quite small pumps.

If you have the knowledge, I can highly recommend doing some research and try looping. I've been doing it now for three years. Time in range is about 92%, A1c always 5.8-6.0%. 80% of the stress is gone. Life is better.

But, it's not accepted therapy and you have to do lots of research to learn how to use the systems. For me it has worked like nothing else. I got my life back after 21 years of suffering with T1D.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:34PM (#30378291)
The Omnipod 5 just received FDA approval, and looks really cool. I'm going to wait a bit and see reactions from other diabetics, though, before I jump onboard.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by brainlessdev on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:43PM (#30378388)
Oh, sweet! It looks like it's not out yet in Germany. You can get the Omnipod Dash here. It does look like it's going to be available soon, though. Will keep an eye out, thanks for the tip!
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jimmaswell on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:25PM (#30378172)
> a near future where technology paliates some of the dread of living with T1D

I thought pump implants already did that, what's missing?

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:31PM (#30378259)
Pumps aren't implants, you replace them regularly. They are a massive improvement in care for many people, but they do not remove the daily toil of managing diabetes. Personally, I found a CGM to be even more helpful than a pump.

Closed loop artificial pancreases are the future, but they will still require a large amount of attention and management by the patient.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jfengel on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:52PM (#30378486)
Indeed. I am not diabetic, but a close friend is, and I have observed all of the effort and uncertainty that goes into it.

My friend got a new high-end closed loop system, and it's so much better than the previous pump. There's still a long way to go before it's truly an artificial pancreas, but my friend already has much higher quality of life, and the tech is still improving.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by mlyle on Thursday February 17, 2022 @04:13PM (#30378761)
Insulins that themselves react to blood sugar levels are another interesting path. Not that they could ever do the entire job, but they could lend some first-order stability.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by KetoType1 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:41PM (#30378372)
The secret to managing Type 1 Diabetes is a ketogenic diet. You will observe extreme stability of blood glucose (low variance) and because the brain uses ketones as fuel, occasional hypoglycemia will be an easily-managed non-event.

You should get most of your calories from olive oil and nuts.

Protein intake should be just as much as you need. Excess protein causes blood glucose instability.

Carbohydrate intake should be as low as possible.

Here is a sketch of a ketogenic diet that works long-term:

  - 2 eggs over medium with 4 tablespoons of olive oil
  - walnuts/almonds/pecans with a little cheese
  - hazelnuts, peanuts, macadamias for hunger
  - a little chia seed (2 tablespoons)
  - salad with avocado (14g of fat) and 9 tablespoons of olive oil, with vinegar
The salad is by far the largest meal of the day should include wide variety of vegetables. Leafy greens, broccoli, brussels sprouts, zucchini, tomato, etc. Add walnuts.

Get a lot of salt. Take a multivitamin and fish oil capsules.

Once a week, eat a burger with no bun. Cheese and meat. This should be eaten after hard exercise (e.g., a hike). You might eat other cheat foods (e.g., seafood, steak) but avoid carbohydrates.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jacquesm on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:52PM (#30380935)
This is a pretty dangerous comment, if you consider going the Keto route and are a diabetes type 1 patient please consult your doctor, there are some risks involved and it definitely does not work for everybody.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by KetoType1 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @08:00PM (#30380972)
Thank you for your concern, friend!

Tell us, how long have you been diabetic?

Anecdotally, I have maintained a HbA1c below 5 for more than 20 years using small variations on the ketogenic diet described above. I need just 6 units of Humalog (short-acting) and 16 units of Lantus (long-acting) per day. It makes diabetes very, very easy to manage.

If anyone reading this is tired of struggling with diabetes, please consider adopting a ketogenic diet.

Consult with a physician!

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by chrisdotcode on Friday February 18, 2022 @08:49AM (#30385609)
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. I know jacquesm is a very well-respected poster, but unless he's got diabetes himself, he's providing his opinion with absolutely no real-world-experience vs someone who has been managing diabetes with keto for two decades.

Even if keto "isn't for everybody" (and KetoType1 should have put a disclaimer), I'd certainly much rather take advice from someone with skin in the game.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jacquesm on Friday February 18, 2022 @09:12AM (#30385854)
By this reason any doctor that doesn't have the disease they help curing should be disqualified as well. Maybe think a bit longer and realize that expertise can be gained in more ways than experience alone.

I've posted a pretty good link below from a respected source if you don't believe what I wrote and whether or not I have diabetes type 1 is not relevant.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by chrisdotcode on Friday February 18, 2022 @11:12AM (#30387543)
Of course you're not immediately "disqualified" from providing meaningful information if you don't have skin in the game. However, the current state of pretty much any science-related-to-food is woefully inadequate (remember the food pyramid? and how fat was evil and going to kill you? And don't even get me started on carcinogens and meat). At this present moment in time, people who are actually trying and living on keto (, in particular those with diabetes) are actually on the bleeding edge of food science.

I personally have friends who manage Type 1 & 2 diabetes with little-to-no insulin on Keto, and I'd hate to see people being turned away from at least researching a lifestyle that could significantly benefit them because a well-respected member of the community said it was "dangerous" (and often, deferring to doctors can be not helpful for reasons mentioned above - I wish people would at least research for themselves).

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jacquesm on Friday February 18, 2022 @12:28PM (#30388527)
And I spent the better part of a month deeply embedded in safety materials regarding diabetes type 1. It's simple: if you start experimenting like that without guidance from your doctor then that's asking for trouble. Giving medical advice with such a high chance of risks materializing for the takers of such advice is irresponsible to put it mildly. You can't just dump blanket statements like that in a forum and expect a positive outcome.

Telling people to research a lifestyle is completely different than providing ready made recipes paired with unqualified statements based on a sample of '1'.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by chrisdotcode on Friday February 18, 2022 @12:36PM (#30388622)
That's true- I even stated that I thought KetoType1 should have put a disclaimer.

At the same time, I do encourage people to take charge of their own health, and to make calculated and appropriate risks. My primary concern was people only reading your name, the word "dangerous", and being put off from further research about keto in general because of that. Some physicians used to recommend rice- and grain-heavy diets for diabetes, so some healthy skepticism (EDIT: in the "trust, but verify" sense) is warranted, even towards one's doctor.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jacquesm on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:55PM (#30390295)
> some healthy skepticism (EDIT: in the "trust, but verify" sense) is warranted, even towards one's doctor.

That's fair, but for all you know OP is making stuff up, has been misdiagnosed and 50 other things that could be true that would make their well intentioned unqualified advice utterly irrelevant and dangerous to boot.

Just like you shouldn't take legal advice from ACs on the internet you shouldn't take medical advice from them either, especially when they're novelty accounts promoting diets that have been used to 'cure' everything from cancer to epilepsy, Alzheimers and TBC. Extreme skepticism is warranted there. As for your doctor: assuming they're a diabetes specialist: you should put your faith in them, and if you don't trust them then you should go find yourself another doctor, not start taking randos advice.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by com2kid on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:37PM (#30379640)
I'm vouching for this because there is indeed a community of type 1 and type 2 diabetics using keto for management.

Obviously it isn't a one size fits all approach, and the above poster could have been a bit more diplomatic, but IMHO it is worth discussing treatments that have been demonstrated to work.

[dead]
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jacquesm on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:13PM (#30380620)
> It will solve all your diabetes problems.

This is an overstatement, to put it mildly, at best you can say that it works for you and for those for whom it also worked after they have put it to the test. But it does not work for everybody and you shouldn't make unqualified statements like that.

Here is a much better (and much better qualified) picture:

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/keto-diet-diabetes-type...

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by Trasmatta on Thursday February 17, 2022 @06:35PM (#30380230)
I do want to try keto at some point, as I've heard a number of success stories for keto / low carb and T1D. It's hard to gather the motivation to start it.

One important thing to point out is that you can't reverse T1D with keto, like some people are able to with T2D. It can greatly reduce your insulin requirements, but not to zero. Your pancreas will not return to normal function.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by RanTig on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:06PM (#30380561)
As far as I know you indeed can't reverse T1D with keto, but making it (much) easier to manage still seems like a very big win.

It's actually pretty easy to get used to a keto diet. Initially you might crave a lot of food items that you were used to eating, but eventually you stop missing them. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything when I'm having some aged cheese and roasted nuts as a snack (which replaced eating cookies or chips for me). It is a little bit more expensive though.

As for drinks, eliminating fruit juices and opting for the 'light' or 'zero' variant as a drop-in replacement if you want something sweet is pretty easy.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by btowngar on Friday February 18, 2022 @02:20AM (#30382993)
One further thing - the article doesn’t talk much about the physical response to wearing a CGM such as the extreme skin irritation some people get from the adhesive. Or the fact that the CGM reading could be way off the reading you get from a finger prick test - which can in turn vary significantly from a lab test result!
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by consp on Friday February 18, 2022 @03:10AM (#30383292)
I did the test once with most meters I still had laying around: ballpark correct but according to them my blood sugar level was between 3.8 and about 7 mmol/l. I have one which is very finacky in the 4.0 and lower range which is annoying if you want to know if it really starting hypoglycemia or you are just tired.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by richie5um on Thursday February 17, 2022 @05:22PM (#30379493)
Thank you for sharing. As a T1 diabetic too, I was reading this nodding my head all the way through.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by prmph on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:01PM (#30380511)
Is it not possible to have a device always connected to the bloodstream, with a replenishable supply of glucose and insulin in different compartments, that periodically checks the blood sugar level, and injects what is appropriate to keep it normal?
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by kelp on Thursday February 17, 2022 @10:25PM (#30381814)
This kind of exists, and here is one such system:

https://www.tandemdiabetes.com/products/t-slim-x2-insulin-pu...

The pump delivers insulin and gets blood glucose readings from a CGM (continuous glucose monitor) over bluetooth. Then the pump can make decisions such as stopping insulin delivery if you're going to go low, doing small correction boluses, and adjusting basal rate.

However it's far from perfect and still needs a lot of management. My wife has T1D and was recently pregnant, which really raises the bar on how tightly you need to control your diabetes. She ended up mostly micromanaging it all herself rather than trusting Control IQ to do the right thing.

The other issue is CGMs are not that accurate, so these systems are making decisions based on not great data.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by code_duck on Saturday February 19, 2022 @06:41PM (#30401638)
I have a tandem pump. The problem I see is that you still have to wait an hour for the insulin to take affect. And like you say, it’s based on CGM data which is not always accurate enough. Perhaps in the future there will be implants that deliver insulin in a more direct route, such as intravenous or intramuscular. That would also make an overdose more dangerous, though.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jacquesm on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:08PM (#30380579)
This is either in trial or already in distribution, it is essentially a metered insulin pump coupled with a continuous glucose monitor.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/diabetes-techn...

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by code_duck on Saturday February 19, 2022 @06:38PM (#30401623)
There are systems that automatically deliver insulin, but I don’t know of anything that automatically delivers glucose. That would be convenient.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by barbazoo on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:43PM (#30378390)
This all sounds really really hard, I'm sorry you have to go through that.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by spanktheuser on Friday February 18, 2022 @01:07PM (#30389044)
It’s just insane. I had no idea until Covid triggered the onset of type 1 diabetes in my niece. I was fortunate to spent time with her a year later. Her mother and father seemed to have aged a decade from the stress. I can only hope that the AI monitored artificial pancreas tech currently in testing is approved for general use soon. The cognitive load of monitoring and treatment is insane; the impact of any unanticipated variance so severe.
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by dot1x on Friday February 18, 2022 @12:27PM (#30388519)
A solution to this (from a non-diabetic) would maybe to always be eating a keto-like diet. It's not easy, but far easier than having to constantly juggle 100s of carb combinations.

"Diet" might even be the wrong word, more like a lifestyle.

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by sdze on Friday February 18, 2022 @06:45AM (#30384538)
Would it not be better to eat only once a day so the potential for errors is minimised?

Skip carbs altogether?

Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by jacquesm on Thursday February 17, 2022 @07:05PM (#30380549)
Continuous delivery closed loop delivery systems are in the works, are they not?
Re:The Unreasonable Math of Type 1 Diabetes by peterb on Thursday February 17, 2022 @03:25PM (#30378178)
This.