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Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by ska on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:45PM (#30376168)
> And this wealth inequality is mostly caused by people making dumb choices.

For what it's worth, people have studied this a lot. While it's true that bad choices can get you in financial trouble, it doesn't seem to be true that most people who are are financial difficultly got there due to poor choices.

It contributes, but on the whole a) it's way more complicated than that and (b) the general narrative around this stuff has very poor SNR.

In general "I did [path dependent thing] and so did my friends, so anyone should be able to" isn't a very good argument for nearly anything. It works as a solid existence proof, but has little to no value for anything else - too much selection bias and path dependence".

Note that previous works regardless of the negative/positive aspects of what you are claiming. Literally none of us have a good idea of how things work in general based only on observation of our own lives and those we know. To get anywhere real on this you have to go vastly broader (i.e. study real data, but first fight the uphill battle to figure out if you can get any that isn't fatally compromised). It's hard work.

Another point is that in general, unless you know someone incredibly well and intimately, your observations of them are by nature pretty weak. Drawing strong conclusions from any of it a dicey proposition.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by pydry on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:11PM (#30375666)
>And this wealth inequality is mostly caused by people making dumb choices.

It was caused by economic parasites, not choices.

I know a fair number of people who inherited property and do almost no productive work.

They live lavish lifestyles and live almost entirely off the hard work of others while their wealth - the result of the hard work of others - both grows and sustains them.

I know a fair few others who are worth to society far in excess of what they are paid and have very little left of that once bills from monopolies, rent and taxes are accounted for.

At some point this system breaks down completely.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by cellis on Thursday February 17, 2022 @01:13PM (#30376531)
Been going pretty well for about 1000 years now. ( how many revolutions have there been in the last 1000 years, and did wealthy people stop being wealthy? )
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by 542458 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:14PM (#30375702)
There are only about ~180,000 people with gender studies degrees in the US. I don’t think that’s responsible for an entire generation’s struggles. Furthermore, the average wage for somebody with such a degree is ~83K, which is pretty respectable.

https://datausa.io/profile/cip/cultural-gender-studies

The idea that genders studies degrees are to blame seems a bit like blaming avocado toast to me.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by matsemann on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:37PM (#30376062)
> I live in a very nice neighborhood, million dollar houses. My neighbors are: a plumber, an accountant, a few programmers, an investor, a retired NASA guy. (...) All of my friends in their 40's are making at least $200K. (...) I literally don't see any poor construction workers, plumbers, electricians, nail or hair stylists.

This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever read in my many years here. You're the walking epitome of privilege and survivorship bias.

Of course you don't see any poor workers, you live among rich people. You have literally no knowledge on why others may struggle. Do you think those 99% of people worse off than you all are lazy and dumb? Really?

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by Frost1x on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:57PM (#30376328)
I always wonder if people live in such bubbles they really don't know or can't even perceive the struggles others deal with. To me it tends to feel disingenious most of the time. When I encounter these sort of retorts I like to sit down and force the person to consider the situation an average minimum wage employee is likely in or even someone doing a bit above minimum wage, say $20/hr, do a little basic arithmetic and budgeting. They usually end up "well that sounds rough, glad I don't have to deal with that" and brush it off where the creep back in their cushy little bubble.

I grew up poor and have plenty of money now so maybe I just have a more unique perspective that's difficult to have without living it. But I often find so many really just want to tow the narrative because they understand how much inequality really works and so long as they're doing better than most, the can continue to do fairly well as long as no one rocks the boat. They like hiring that person to do that thing for virtually nothing. They like all the services they get for marginal costs because the people who work there are being exploited. As long as it's not in their face as as long as they can br the lords and vassels of today, they get to enjoy enough of the spoils of human exploitation to ignore all the terrible ways we treat each other through financial abstractions.

So much success or lack there of has little to nothing to do with work ethic, value creation, or contribution to society and has so much more to do with gaming the current systems.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by nonford150 on Thursday February 17, 2022 @01:53PM (#30377060)
Human nature - it is a b*tch. Let's face it - as you say, most people are looking out for themselves; they rarely, if ever, think about the cashier or stock clerk who's working 3 jobs and still not making it. And it's not a "screw everyone else" sort of attitude, it's more of not even thinking about it because they're absorbed with their own lives.

Only when folks are faced with how such a reality affects them, such as when a company lays them off and they have little marketable skills after toiling away in a throwaway job for 10 years, do they actually give any real consideration to how others live - because they now are facing the same sort of conditions and giant concrete roadblocks.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by ptudan on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:15PM (#30375740)
You're acting as if getting that blue collar training is something people are rejecting.

The people who are truly broke don't have the option of choosing between a history degree and plumber training. They grow up in broken homes with parents working 3 part time jobs because no one will give them benefits. The benefit cliffs prevent their parents from jumping up in social status.

"The only people I see are struggling are the ones who have made dumb choices" is naive at best, dismissive, callous, and uncaring at worst.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by long_time_gone on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:21PM (#30375844)
> And this wealth inequality is mostly caused by people making dumb choices. Like getting a college degree that doesn't give you any marketable skills.

People with college degrees aren't the ones losing the wealth battle. Rather than looking around your circumstances, we should look at data [1]:

Education Level Median wealth

No high school diploma $20,780

High school diploma $73,890

Some college $89,280

College degree $308,800

[1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/average-net-worth/

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by bufferoverflow on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:37PM (#30376067)
Indeed a degree helps, but you will be surprised

1) how many people with the unmarketable degrees work in completely different fields, and would be much better off studying in that field from the beginning

2) how much more money certain majors make. Most doctors have a net worth over a million. Most art majors - not even close.

If we want to improve the wealth inequality, we should start pushing young people to what society actually demands, not the "you can be whatever you want" nonsense.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by long_time_gone on Thursday February 17, 2022 @01:21PM (#30376630)
> how many people with the unmarketable degrees work in completely different fields, and would be much better off studying in that field from the beginning

There is no majors for people who get into high-paying jobs like "Sales" or "Real Estate Broker". I also know the most successful people in those industries tend to have college degrees. People with those interests can use their college experience to make themselves more well-rounded humans. They can build their networks and improve future earning potential. They can focus on other disciplines (writing, marketing, pre-law, etc.) to make them more successful in their chosen career.

> how much more money certain majors make.

It sounds like you were surprised when you saw your initial example of a "dumb choice" major, Gender Studies, had an average wage over $80k; which is more than double the national median. Your second example International Relations, has an average wage of $97k [2].

Maybe it is your frame of reference that needs change rather than other people's major choices.

[1] https://datausa.io/profile/cip/cultural-gender-studies

[2] https://datausa.io/profile/cip/international-relations-affai...

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by cellis on Thursday February 17, 2022 @01:16PM (#30376579)
This is likely time biased. Future generations will not be so skewed towards those with degrees, in fact, it may revert slightly, as crushing student debt isn't rewarded for holders of worthless degrees. This should be a self correcting problem in the long term. Eventually society decides to punish those who aren't producing things it wants.
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by nicholasnorris on Thursday February 17, 2022 @02:16PM (#30377328)
I feel like the logic of this solution doesn't exactly lead to a rosy conclusion. If everyone is sorted into a narrow range of Professional and STEM degrees, wouldn't this just lead to lowering of wages for degree holders in those fields to something marginally above unskilled labor, while giving the business class that have taken ahold of most institutions a greater excuse to keep more of the profit for themselves?
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by long_time_gone on Thursday February 17, 2022 @01:52PM (#30377041)
Any data that support these theories would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by Taylor_OD on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:14PM (#30375706)
> wealth inequality is mostly caused by people making dumb choices. Like getting a college degree that doesn't give you any marketable skills.

What a miss. Teenagers being handed checks for 100K+ to study topics that wont get them a job is the fault of the... teenager? Maybe we should focus on outcomes from colleges instead of enrollments. Maybe high schooler guidance considers should actually help students discover career paths? Maybe financial institution shouldnt give teenagers unforgivable loans they will never be able to pay back? Maybe as a society we shouldnt set the standard that one has to and needs to go to college by and large to be successful?

There are a whole slew of things that cause wealth inequality but blaming it on someone taking a check to study a subject that doesnt translate to a real world job is so low on the list of concerns it shouldnt even be a part of the conversation.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by bufferoverflow on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:28PM (#30375958)
> Teenagers being handed checks for 100K+ to study topics that wont get them a job is the fault of the... teenager?

Who else is responsible for their choice? They make the choice, nobody else. That 100K check doesn't force them to choose a particular degree.

I wish we had mandatory annual counseling for students that would inform them of the market demands. But again, at 18 you can just Google that info in 30 seconds.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by Taylor_OD on Thursday February 17, 2022 @01:08PM (#30376483)
Well we wont let those same people buy booze or rent a car so we clearly don't think they are responsible enough to make those big decisions.

If we are already deciding what people under the age of 21 can do we should probably add giving someone a unforgivable loan that could put them in debt for life to that list.

Also I'd argue that googling for 30 seconds to determine your future career is just as stupid as taking a check and figuring it out as you go.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by lotsofpulp on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:38PM (#30376083)
The voters who vote for politicians to lend teenagers $100k+ with zero underwriting.
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by torbTurret on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:41PM (#30376131)
I’ve made great choices my entire life and have a 200k salary in my twenties. I’ve been outbid on the last four houses I put offers on, including one that sold for 1.4 million, wait for it, in cash.

It’s nice your life has been so easy. Really. But please don’t use your rose-tinted glasses to accuse everyone else of being “dumb” - aside from how pretentious it comes off, it’s a wholly incorrect view. Does it factor in covid-related job loss? Inflation? Anything other than your dated experiences that no longer apply?

The icing on ththe cake is that you responded to someone else calling them “dishonest.”

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by carapace on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:18PM (#30375799)
> And this wealth inequality is mostly caused by people making dumb choices.

Sure, but where does that get us? What can we do about it? In the long run education should, one hopes, help. But given that wealth inequality is likely to be a feature of all but the most smurfy of societies, how do we want to manage it in ours?

(According to legend, the creator of the Smurfs was a staunch Communist and he designed the Smurfs to be a model Communist society. Supposedly the Smurfs are a kind of revenge for being denied entry to some nation or other for his political beliefs. I swear I 'm not making this up. The smurfs are ruled by a red father, they each are defined by their profession or main talent, they "give according to their ability and receive according to their need" without any money or economic system, and the guy who is their nemesis wants to eat them or turn them into gold. Oh and they have no women at first, and then they have one woman and her job is "woman". I don't know if that last part is particularly communist, but it's pretty messed up if you think about it. "Smurfs don't lay eggs! I won't tell you that again!")

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by bufferoverflow on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:31PM (#30375990)
We should spend more time informing students of their future prospects. So they have a chance to change the direction of their studies. Or not take a college degree at all and learn some trade skills, which will be in demand until robots take everyone's jobs.
Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by itake on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:30PM (#30375983)
While I agree with you on most of your points, one angle that adjusted my thinking was that the degrees you mentioned are typically the first step in higher level skills like Law, politics, or pre-med.

It is definitely a huge problem if you don't continue your education into higher value areas, but I don't think getting one of those degrees is necessarily a 'dumb choice'

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by lordnacho on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:14PM (#30375715)
One could argue that the dumb choices are being rewarded. Houses, the ultimate passive asset but what everyone's mom tells them to buy, make a lot of sense to buy when the fed is propping them up.

There are plenty of people with non technical degrees who do well in this world too, propped up by unpopped malinvestment.

Re:Investors bought a record share of U.S. homes in 2021 by greenie_beans on Thursday February 17, 2022 @12:37PM (#30376070)
lol what a simplistic take. i have a degree in southern studies and i work in tech. i took a lot of sociology classes about gender and race, and it made me a better writer, communicator, researcher, and more compassionate as a teammate.

https://southernstudies.olemiss.edu/