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Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by paxys on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:12AM (#30343040)
Not my own business but from my experience at the B2B SaaS company I work for –

Hire salespeople! It will be obvious when you need to do it. You will put it off by saying that the entire sales industry is made up of needless gatekeepers and leeches, and that those fat commissions are better invested elsewhere in the business. Except you will see your self-serve funnel dry up and your well-funded competitors will start eating your lunch unless you take that leap.

It doesn't matter how smart your engineers are and how fully featured and bug free your product is. Unless you have a stellar sales team with the right leads who are pushing it on people with all their might, it is going nowhere.

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by paulstovell on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:18AM (#30343084)
This 100%!

My experience here: https://twitter.com/paulstovell/status/1389881033470869504

This talk by Paul Kenny is a really good talk here about the value of the sales function even if you don't want the revenue:

Paul Kenny: Selling Sales to Techies (2010): https://vimeo.com/96703844

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by cmeacham98 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:53AM (#30343277)
How do you make sure you get the good type of sales culture that is customer-centric, rather than the bad type of "trick customers into buying things they don't need"? Are there specific policies/incentives/etc that should be used? Or is it really just 'hire the right people'?
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by gumby on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:35AM (#30343460)
Hiring good people is the main key, and a good VP of sales is crucial.

Depending on your product you can control it with comp as well. For example, for an enterprise product, especially one that renews annually and/or has milestone payments, comp the sales person as the cash comes in (and pay out for the renewals same as you would for the initial deal). Unhappy customers don’t pay. I have also paid out commission on time (when customer should have paid, when the delay was due to engineering, and not manageable by salesperson. Sometimes engineering delays are due to sales people though :-(.

Have engineering work out the milestones and deliverables with the customer. Have the CEO sign contracts, nobody else. Count as sales only deals that have both customer P.O. and signed contract (so common to have only one and have the sales person argue that the deal should be booked anyway. Amazing how they could get both in on the last day of the quarter though).

Etc. When I was about 20 my dad told me he’d fired half the sales people he’d ever hired. I shook my head and thought, “what an idiot”. A couple of decades later I looked back and it was about the same for me. I mean table stakes for a sales person is selling themselves. And getting canned isn’t always a bad mark against a sales person. So it’s hard to judge up front, but if they don’t sell “right away”* shove them out the door. It’s not like an engineer for whom you want to invest extra time to help them get into the groove; that’s part of the sales person’s way of life and the good ones are proud of it.

Pay the good sales people well. At your annual sales shindig have the CEO show up for a day, or half a day, to give a pep talk, enthuse about the VP of sales and the top sellers (who made it by following the rules) and then bow out. Maybe have the CFO talk about how many commission checks they had to cut. And have them mention that the top sellers make more than the CEO.

Another tip: have every member of the exec team, yes even CFO, VP of Manufacturing or whomever, go on a customer sales call every quarter. Sometimes a first visit, sometimes a sales person “check in” call or or whatever. It will make the execs understand how the customer views your product, not what marketing and the sales folk think the product is.

* right away depends on your sales cycle. Could be the end of the second month (but you’re already breathing down their next after two weeks), or first quarter, or six months (ugh). And if you sell semiconductor manufacturing gear with a sales cycle of 48 months, good luck.

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by forgingahead on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:03AM (#30343912)
The founder should always lead the sales at the initial stage, even if they are a techie. The founder creates the culture, so it's important to have that influence on that org. Then you hire the right people to replace yourself, and fire them quickly if they deviate from what you want.

Welcome to being a founder. If you don't want to do it, you need a co-founder who will, but they must have the same values you do.

It is easier as a tech person to do the sales yourself than to find a good sales co-founder that mimics your customer-centric values. Both are of course very hard, but relatively speaking doing it yourself initially is easier between the two.

And those who don't want to do that should work for a company where those functions are handled by other people, but if you start a company, expect to do sales.

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by paulstovell on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:17AM (#30343388)
First is the right people - don't hire "Frank" from Paul Kenny's talk.

Second is to join sales calls or watch the recordings (Chorus.ai is great for this). Put yourself in the buyer's shoes and coach based on those recordings - I always listen from the point of view of "If I was the customer, do I think they really care about my problem, and is it credible that they will help me solve it?". Right now I watch 1-2 recordings a week and then chat with the team about what they think went well and where we might improve, and we are figuring it out together. That continuous process is what reinforces the culture. When the CEO is focussed on helping customers, and revenue as a secondary concern, it becomes the culture.

Third is probably for the sales team not to be an island. So get the engineering and product leaders to join the calls or watch the recordings too, so that the tiny features or friction points make their way onto the roadmap eventually.

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by enraged_camel on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:42AM (#30343228)
Hey, thank you for this. Can I pick your brain about it sometime? I couldn't find contact info in your profile - my email is ege at pricetable dot io

edit: why am I getting downvotes...

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by paulstovell on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:18AM (#30343393)
Thanks! My DM's are open, or paul at [my HN handle].com, happy to talk to anyone making this transition.
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by MathCodeLove on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @05:21AM (#30344746)
Does HN have DM's?? The client I use at least doesn't show them anywhere.
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by metadata on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @07:14AM (#30345448)
AFAIK HN does not have DMs. However, Twitter does and Steve has a Twitter post linked above.
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by sam0x17 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:41AM (#30343223)
I do miss the days when merely building a good + cool product was enough and organic search traffic would do the rest. The early 00s were great
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by purerandomness on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @08:41AM (#30346245)
I think the biggest misconception is that there ever was a time where this ("build it and they will come") ever worked, digital or not.
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by brtkdotse on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:09AM (#30343345)
Care to share a few examples?
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by aaronbrethorst on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @01:18AM (#30343394)
Pets.com, Webvan, or Flooz.
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by berkes on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:58AM (#30344202)
> Pets.com

Funny that you mention this. Because I remember it as the exact opposite of organic growth. So much, that I consider pets.com the first public example of how millions of marketing budget are far more important¹ than engineering.

> A high-profile marketing campaign gave it a widely recognized public presence, including an appearance in the 1999 Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade and an advertisement in the 2000 Super Bowl. Its popular sock puppet advertising mascot was interviewed by People magazine and appeared on Good Morning America. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pets.com

¹ Edit: for growth. I don't like this and I'm still not convinced marketing is worth more than engineering; I hope to believe the opposite turns true in the end. But alas, I'm afraid I'm wrong, as can be seen in any new tech-field. Crypto being the latest: don't build actual cryptography, just set up a multi-million marketing scheme and run off with the money, if you want to make money there in 2022.

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by anonymouse008 on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:26AM (#30343144)
Ok, great advice, but what was the dynamic between customer build outs and sales?

Are you selling basically an as-is product? Is there customization required (preloading data, training, etc) to 'make the sale'?

I'm asking because I'm in an interesting position where I have a very nice platform, but it requires solutions specialists paired with salespeople, so outstripping specialists with sales growth isn't as productive.

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by clove on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:35AM (#30343193)
If I have my own digital products as a side-hustle, is it worth hiring salespeople? Or is it really only worth it for big businesses/B2B with big ticket prices?

Example product of mine: https://damonverial.com/the-gap-gameplan/

Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by tpetry on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @12:54AM (#30343280)
Hiring sales people is easy. But finding good sales people is really hard!
Re:Ask HN: What made your business take off that you wish yo... by tonyedgecombe on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @03:41AM (#30344118)
I've worked in a few sales led organisations and it seemed to me it was just as difficult as hiring programmers. The only difference was it was easy to see who wasn't performing. You could quickly spot the poor performers and deal with them.