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Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by funstuff007 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @07:44PM (#30317922)
Maybe HOlmes's problem was she was collecting too much blood. Maybe she needed to collect less blood.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by joering2 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:31PM (#30318222)
Her only problem was that she fell off the runway before she had a chance to take off. Some engineers I spoke with told me she was 2 years before her big breakthru. At the end of the day no difference between Holmes being over-promising on blood testing, and Musk over-promising with your Tesla being a robotaxi that makes you $30,000 profit a year, by driving fully autonomously inside a vast network of underground 3D tunnels at speeds of 150 mph.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by axutio on Sunday February 13, 2022 @01:00AM (#30319653)
Holmes wasn't just making lofty promises about the future capabilities of her technology, she was lying about its current capabilities to investors and using unreliable diagnostic tools to provide patients with test results that were frequently wrong - real patients experienced real harm as a result.

The better analogy would be Musk indiscriminately enabling full self-driving in every Model 3, claiming its Level 5 as is, and encouraging drivers to sit in the back with a blindfold on.

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by BoorishBears on Sunday February 13, 2022 @02:59AM (#30320094)
Actually the current state of the FSD Beta would be a great analogy, no alteration needed.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by hn_throwaway_99 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:47PM (#30318316)
Did these "some engineers" get their degree from a crackerjack box?

Holmes was always full of shit, and a "big breakthru" in this area is impossible, as there is ample evidence that capillary blood at these volumes is simply not homogeneous enough to give accurate results for quantitative tests.

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by joering2 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:50PM (#30318334)
Impossible with todays technology. When Musk was initially pitching electric car, everyone was laughing because back then the batteries density made it impossible for battery to be lightweight enough to be carried in a normal sized car. And look where we are today...

Let's revisit Holmes claims in 15 years. Unless you want to argue that there will never be any progress made in terms of blood tests???

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by hn_throwaway_99 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:57PM (#30318363)
Not sure why I'm feeding the trolls, but anyway:

> everyone was laughing because back then the batteries density made it impossible for battery to be lightweight enough to be carried in a normal sized car.

That's simply untrue. The issue was always recognized to be economic, not a physical impossibility issue. There were a bunch of (crappy) electric cars in the 90s.

With respect to Theranos, impossible as in it is physically impossible, because of the non-homogeneity of capillary blood. It simply doesn't matter how good your blood test is, if you are doing a quantitative test, for many types of tests you can simply not get good enough accuracy doing a finger prick test.

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by CamperBob2 on Sunday February 13, 2022 @06:19AM (#30320944)
With respect to Theranos, impossible as in it is physically impossible, because of the non-homogeneity of capillary blood. It simply doesn't matter how good your blood test is, if you are doing a quantitative test, for many types of tests you can simply not get good enough accuracy doing a finger prick test.

The crazy thing is, you don't have to consult biomedical engineers or pore over leading-edge research papers to discover this. You just need to ask almost any med tech with a modicum of experience with blood tests. They will tell you, in no uncertain terms, that Blood Does Not Work That Way.

I will never understand the lack of due diligence performed by the Theranos investors. There couldn't possibly have been any due diligence at all. It's very hard to avoid slipping into victim-blaming mode in any conversation about this company.

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by fastball on Saturday February 12, 2022 @09:07PM (#30318420)
When you said the 90s, did you mean the 1890s? If so, you would be correct.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by austinjp on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:58PM (#30318375)
You've leapt from 2 years to 15 years, I notice. And "blood tests" vs tests of capillary blood is a big difference.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by joering2 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @09:08PM (#30318430)
Because of injustice that happened to Holmes (mostly because she is a woman; man promising all kind of crap never delivering have been given pass many times before - see Musk track record for reference), nobody is going to touch blood testing for a very long time. Hence 15 years.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by MattGaiser on Saturday February 12, 2022 @09:29PM (#30318545)
There is a difference between promising all sorts of stuff and making claims about what is already fact. Holmes ran afoul of the latter. Her claim was not that the machines will work. She could have freely made that claim. She fraudulently claimed that the machines did work.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by TylerE on Sunday February 13, 2022 @01:23AM (#30319737)
She didn't suffer injustice for being a woman.

She received justice for being a charlatan.

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by kuhewa on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:43PM (#30319294)
I can only guess you aren't actually familiar with Holmes' claims.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by withinboredom on Sunday February 13, 2022 @04:12AM (#30320433)
And battery density still hasn’t changed much since then, despite him claiming we are always just a year away from doubling it. Sounds familiar…
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by copo233 on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:10PM (#30319132)
You can't call dibs on any future progress in a field.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by kordlessagain on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:22PM (#30319199)
That's a thing nowadays. Trevor Noah talked about this type of biased thinking recently. While it is true there may be a machine in the future that can do what Holmes claimed, there are still people who worked at the company who claimed it was impossible due to our current understanding of the laws of physics.
Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by hn_throwaway_99 on Sunday February 13, 2022 @09:43AM (#30322004)
> While it is true there may be a machine in the future that can do what Holmes claimed

No, there won't. I feel the need to keep repeating this because for some reason many people seem to conflate "it is not possible with current technology" with "it is a physical impossibility". Doing accurate quantitative blood tests with a finger prick is a physical impossibility.

All that said, one thing that made me especially mad about Theranos is that a lot of their ideas, e.g. one small, portable machine that can run tons of tests; simplified, consumer-accessible pricing; access at neighborhood pharmacies, etc., had a ton of value even if accomplished with venous blood draws. But instead Holmes' delusions of grandeur forced her to hang everything on the fraudulent, and impossible, "must be done with a finger prick" idea.

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by kordlessagain on Tuesday February 15, 2022 @04:00PM (#30352645)
I said may be. What is impossible is to negate a "maybe". While there may be physical limitation now, that doesn't mean there will be later. New understandings of physics may change that, as would new technology that wouldn't normally be researched along a given path to an idea or need (like a very small machine operating on very small samples). For example, we may find a way to use neutrinos to detect things we didn't know we could detect before, because someone theorized that doing XYZ with neutrenos allows us to detect them.

That "discovery" (hypothetical) could then be repurposed to build a small machine that does what Holmes thought it could. Not that she thought about stuff like that - she was designing their stupid building instead.

The point I was making was that not knowing now and then saying will will know later at which point "someone becomes right" is a biased way of thinking. My point was not to say there will or won't be, which is why I used "may be".

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by jacquesm on Saturday February 12, 2022 @08:48PM (#30318327)
> Some engineers I spoke with told me she was 2 years before her big breakthru.

That's pretty gullible given her history to date. 2 years before a breakthrough spells 'never', that's exactly how the rest of the investors got bilked.

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by heavyset_go on Sunday February 13, 2022 @05:43AM (#30320819)
> At the end of the day no difference between Holmes being over-promising on blood testing, and Musk over-promising with your Tesla being a robotaxi that makes you $30,000 profit a year, by driving fully autonomously inside a vast network of underground 3D tunnels at speeds of 150 mph.

There's a difference, Musk is wealthy and has mostly swindled consumers and retail investors, while Holmes wasn't wealthy and mainly swindled the wealthy.

Re:App can vibrate a single drop of blood to determine how w... by kuhewa on Saturday February 12, 2022 @11:45PM (#30319299)
Were the engineers from the future?